What to do?

WolfSong2000

To be honest, I am not sure if this is the "correct" forum for this query, but it's a little complicated and does revolve around relationships...

Basically, I started working for a start-up company a few months ago...got them up and running, email, calendar, suppliers, etc...everything they needed. This included design and printing of marketing materials. As they only required small amounts initially, I found out that rather than going to bigger suppliers, I discussed the requirements with a local printer who I knew well and who is a famly friend and he agreed to do small runs much cheaper than the big companies. I know his work, and it's consistently high quality.

Long story short, he printed the goods (leaflets and business cards). Business cards were hand delivered by him - a little late, but he kept in contact and explained the delay, so I wasn't unduly concerned. They were accepted by one of the owners who looked them over and said they were fine.

Right after that happened, I was let go from the job (conveniently when I had gotten everything set up for the business - in hindsight their business model only really supported paying me for the initial setup, after which they could manage themselves as I had already set everything up).

Now the other owner is contesting the quality of the printed items and is refusing to pay. It's not a lot of money (around £50), but she has already sent emails to the printer advising that she wants him to send her copies of emails sent from my personal account (which I had to use until I got the business email set up) and that she has gotten a solicitor involved?

Basically the owner is becoming very nasty and lying and making threats. I explained to her before that I had made an executive decision (as manager) to make an amendment to the business cards so they were one sided instead of double sided. It was a small run, saved money and I decided the business card didn't need the logo on both sides. I explained this to her and said that she needed to pay up. Now she's claiming the quality is no good, that the delivery was made late in the day (so what? she wasn't home - it was her partner who accepted them) and various other things.

Leaving aside the fact that she's also sabotaged other relationships with suppliers I have introduced her to, I want to know how I can make her pay up and leave the poor printer alone. He's a small, one-man band, lives and works in a rural area and is not accustomed to this level of stress. That and he also completed the work as requested and deserved to be paid.

So far my old boss has refrained from contacting me (she used to send me emails asking me to do things for her - and this was after she had fired me. I initially politely declined, and then chose to ignore), but the printer has been in touch to make me aware that she is requesting emails from my personal account.

So far I have stayed out of this, but I am seriously considering sending an email to bosses partner who is much more level headed to see if he an talk her into paying and letting the matter drop.

What do you all think?

bagpussbear

I wouldn't send an email.

If she is talking about a solicitor it would suggest to me that she thinks some sort of fraud/foul play has taken place.

I guess your family friend can either submit copies of the emails to her or refuse, and wait for her solicitor, or get one himself to recover payment?

You seem quite emotionally involved still, which is probably understandable, but really at the end of the day your friend is a businessman who I am sure must have done business with not-so-nice customers at some point in his career and therefore he needs to deal with this as he sees fit - your interference, however well you mean, might hinder things.

At the end of the day, the contract to supply the cards/leaflets is between your friend and the company you used to work for.

So no, in your shoes, I would not be tempted to send any emails to anyone.

BitterAndTwisted

Bloody hell! This "business" person needs to spend a bit more time developing their start-up rather than wasting time and energy on trying to stiff someone for fifty measly quid.

Unless there's some scope for claiming that you weren't authorised to spend the company's money, I'd stay well out of it.

Seems they've done you a favour by letting you go. Total a-holes.

WolfSong2000

No fraud of any kind has taken place, I can assure you. As I said, the business cards were printed one sided instead of both sides (layout was logo on one side, then on the other the logo on the left and contact details on the right...bosses were away on holiday, so rather than delaying things until they got back I decided to go ahead with one sided business cards for a small run (less than 1,000 split between 2 bosses and myself...think it was 200 for each of us).

I am still emotionally involved as I got royally screwed over (I won't go into all the details). On the one hand, I accept I took a risk (left a well paid job to give this a shot), but on the other I did my utmost to leave on good terms and boss has done all they can to sour that.

As for the printer - he's a lovely guy, but he can be...how can I put this...rather fragile, emotionally. Plus he's had a tough year (death in the family) and isn't accustomed to the kind of attitude that this woman is showing.

Ordinarily I'd just let loose at her, but she (boss) claims that she has cancer....also later claimed that it was terminal, but I have no way of verifying any of this. So, giving her the benefit of the doubt I have no way of knowing if she is normally a cow, or if it's wholly or at least in part due to her illness.

As for her business...knowing what I now know about her and her attitude, I am not convinced it will succeed, which is a shame as it was potentially viable.

I think I got a lucky escape, but am also annoyed as right before I was fired I got offered a good job via an agency which I turned down (was given no warning about being let go, and technically they didn't adhere to the contract which said I was to be given written notice - only notice I got was verbal...they just said it wasn't working out and for the final week I was to work from home, not at their office).

BitterAndTwisted

I said "scope for claiming" on their part. It was a bit of clutching at straws to find a rational reason for behaving in such a way. I was most certainly not hinting that there might be any actual fraud or misrepresentation of any kind by you. Although from the sound of your ex-employer they are likely well-versed in such behaviour.

silvercar

Mixing friendship with business doesn't work.

As to whether your ex-employer feels genuinely aggrieved or is trying it on, you can't tell.

As you are no longer employed by the company, you need to step away. If the printer needs to show the emails from your personal email address, I wouldn't see a problem as you were acting in official capacity at that time.

For the future, charge more for a start-up with a reduced rate for ongoing maintenance and support; that should more reflect your time. To avoid these scenarios in future, you need to get written confirmation of your budgetry responsibilities and limits.

silvercar

To add, the business will fail because of the attitude of your ex-employer and well deserved. People who don't pay contractors/ suppliers by using their the fact that little guys don't have the resources to fight back get what they deserve.

BigAunty

I would ignore any contact from the 'business' person. To launch even a small claims court action against you would probably cost more than the print run and stand a v. strong chance of failing. Probably the same thing if launched against the printer to whom you can give some moral support.

Small claims court action doesn't require a solicitor, its supposed to be laymans justice. To engage a solicitor is probably going to cost more than £100 for even a simple consultation and threatening letter. I wonder if the business start-up partner is bu**sh***ting about the legal support.

Ask on the consumer forum as this is essentially a contractual issue (albeit wrapped up in relationship issues and emotions in the usual way). Find out how much small claims court action costs and basic solicitor support.

WolfSong2000

silvercar wrote: »

Mixing friendship with business doesn't work.

As to whether your ex-employer feels genuinely aggrieved or is trying it on, you can't tell.

As you are no longer employed by the company, you need to step away. If the printer needs to show the emails from your personal email address, I wouldn't see a problem as you were acting in official capacity at that time.

For the future, charge more for a start-up with a reduced rate for ongoing maintenance and support; that should more reflect your time. To avoid these scenarios in future, you need to get written confirmation of your budgetry responsibilities and limits.

My ex employer already asked me if I had agreed to the amendments the printer had made and I told her that I had. Doing so saved her a good deal of money and had no effect on the overall quality of the product...as I said, I can't tell if this vindictive streak is part of her personality or down to her cancer.

As for taking on the job...I'm the first to admit I was rather naive. I was told it was a permanent position - significant pay drop from my previous job, but much more interesting. I took it on, got the business set up and everything in place and then got the excuse that I was "dropping the ball" and my services were no longer required. The reality was that I was having to navigate different orders and requirements (sometimes contradictory) from the two bosses as well as do the majority of the admin work as well as project management. They often couldn't make up their minds what they wanted, but kept me on until I had laid the foundations - from that point, in hindsight, their business model didn't really support paying me as I had already done all of the hard work. Hard lesson learned, but there we go!

BitterAndTwisted

I feel sorry for the printer as he's the one that's going to be be stiffed. But at least it's not for a really substantial sum.

People who go into business and behave like this from the starting-blocks, most especially when they contradict each other are almost guaranteed to fail. Get some wine ready chilling so you can make a toast when their business goes down the lav. It will, I'd put money on it.

victory

WolfSong2000 wrote: »

My ex employer already asked me if I had agreed to the amendments the printer had made and I told her that I had. Doing so saved her a good deal of money and had no effect on the overall quality of the product...as I said, I can't tell if this vindictive streak is part of her personality or down to her cancer.

As for taking on the job...I'm the first to admit I was rather naive. I was told it was a permanent position - significant pay drop from my previous job, but much more interesting. I took it on, got the business set up and everything in place and then got the excuse that I was "dropping the ball" and my services were no longer required. The reality was that I was having to navigate different orders and requirements (sometimes contradictory) from the two bosses as well as do the majority of the admin work as well as project management. They often couldn't make up their minds what they wanted, but kept me on until I had laid the foundations - from that point, in hindsight, their business model didn't really support paying me as I had already done all of the hard work. Hard lesson learned, but there we go!

Maybe not your place to do so but from a friendship stand point could you not pay the £50 to your friend and stop all this animosity? Sure it may not be what you want to do and why should you but seen as it is very little money would it be not better for stress levels and friendship just for you to step in and pay?