No Party Wall Agreement

partialycloudy

Hi All,

Looking for some advice...or a miracle.

Property we are trying to buy had a flue removed (think it was for an old style cooker or boiler, not for a fire place) and didn't get a Party Wall agreement in place. The house next door has been empty for some years and was recently repossessed so there will be no way of getting one retrospectively!

Our solicitor is insisting on it, and has said that indemnity insurance will not cover it.

Has anyone ever come across this or any ideas how this can be resolved?

Thanks

G_M

A Party Wall Agreement is only of relevance before and during any works.

It is irrelevant once the work is completed.

Indeed, you cannot get a PWA put in place for works that are complete. That would be a nonsence since the purpose of the PWA is to manage the work.

It is in any case not compulsory.

You solicitor is either incompletant, or either you or he has misunderstood - does he/you mean Building Regulations?

partialycloudy

This is what the ES said but I emailed the surveyour who performed the homebuyers report....pointing out that a party wall agreement was needed and he said:

The agent is partly correct but if there are any complicationsfollowing works and a party wall act agreement was not in place that could leadto a complicated legal situation developing, your legal advisor will be able toassist further and advise you.

G_M

If there are complications following the works, you sue!

A PWA might help avoid such complications, and might help allocate responsibility for future complications, but at the end of the day costs resulting from complications will either be amicably resolved by agreement, or resolved in court.

But a PWA CANNOT be put in place for completed works, so your solicitor is incmpetant to 'insist' on one.

Fatenbread

Your solicitor works under your instruction, they are not in a position to insist you do something.

The solicitor's job is to advise you of the law or the interpretation of contract terms - whether you then follow that advice is up to you.

partialycloudy

To be fair the solicitor is not a building expert and is working off the recommendations supplied in the home buyers report. The surveyour mentioned that party wall agreements would need to be provided.

However I have stated to her that no one lives next door and it is being repossessed and she is looking into a work around.

But I am trying to do my own research to prove that PWA would not relevant after the event...do any of you know where this would in writing? I have the PWA agreement on the GOV.Uk website but have no idea what I'm looking for!

Fatenbread

partialycloudy wrote: »

To be fair the solicitor is not a building expert and is working off the recommendations supplied in the home buyers report. The surveyour mentioned that party wall agreements would need to be provided.

However I have stated to her that no one lives next door and it is being repossessed and she is looking into a work around.

But I am trying to do my own research to prove that PWA would not relevant after the event...do any of you know where this would in writing? I have the PWA agreement on the GOV.Uk website but have no idea what I'm looking for!

Have a look here: http://www.peterbarry.co.uk/blog/2009/oct/23/what-do-when-your-neighbour-ignores-party-wall-act/

Next door can't "stop work" under the Act if the work is complete, and if the work has been done competently, they have no damages to claim (even if you would be culpable for damages caused by a builder you did not instruct, which is doubtful).

Even under the Act, they can't prevent you from using the party wall - they can just make it an an believably tedious and expensive chew-on, due to this ridiculously badly drafted legislation.

partialycloudy

Thanks for all your help so far!

two more questions:

So next door is currently empty, being sold by the bank. New people move in and see damage to their party wall. They say its been caused by the removal of the flue..not sure how they could prove it. But would the liability be on us to prove it wasn't caused by the flue removal or could we just say " no idea, work was done by previous owner" and they could not sue us or anything??

There has been some questions re Building regs for a load bearing wall which was removed 6 years ago. The owner did not get it signed off and has said it will take too long to get council out now to do it retrospectively. He has offered to have a structural survey performed and get indemnity insurance instead....would you think this was sufficient? would we have issues when we go to sell?

Thanks

G_M

Fatenbread wrote: »

Your solicitor works under your instruction, they are not in a position to insist you do something.

Unless of course they are also acting on behalf of a mortgage lender, who can insist....

G_M

partialycloudy wrote: »

Thanks for all your help so far!

two more questions:

So next door is currently empty, being sold by the bank. New people move in and see damage to their party wall. They say its been caused by the removal of the flue..not sure how they could prove it. But would the liability be on us to prove it wasn't caused by the flue removal or could we just say " no idea, work was done by previous owner" and they could not sue us or anything??
The burden of proof would be on the claimant (next door) to show that you (or your contractors) caused damage.

There has been some questions re Building regs for a load bearing wall which was removed 6 years ago. The owner did not get it signed off and has said it will take too long to get council out now to do it retrospectively. He has offered to have a structural survey performed and get indemnity insurance instead....would you think this was sufficient? would we have issues when we go to sell?

Thanks

Indemnity insurance will pay out if the council were to demand the wall was re-instated, or the work re-done to Building Regs standards.

Since this will never happen after 6 years, the policy is just money for the insurance company.

It would not pay out if the wall (or roof above) collapsed.

A full structural survey is unlikely to identify whether the wall was adequately supported.

A Structural Engineers report (different skill set), focussing soley on that wall, would be more useful. Even that would probobly require examination behind plasterwork etc (causing some cosmetic damage) to see how the work was done. Would the owner permit this?

partialycloudy

Yes the EA mentioned that either floor boards above would be lifted or a hole would be drilled to insert a camera.

We already have confirmation from our homebuyers report that there has been no movement in the property.

The chimney has been supported with the correct brackets or braes etc.

We had legal issues with our previous property which we are still paying for and we are concerned that if we don't get the issued with this property sorted now then we could have issues in the future.