NTK Arrived on day 57?

summerdownsouth

Hi all,

I got a ticket, read all the info on here ( thank you all) and have my flowchart and walk through all printed out

My NTK arrived on day 57 ( if you count the day after a received the ticket as day 1) It was posted on day 54 but late in the evening so would not have been into the delivery system till day 55 and as it had a 2nd class stamp.......

Anyway , I appreciate that this is a strong arguement to use at the POPLA stage but do I mention it in my first appeal letter and if so in what detail?

Also how do I write down the legal bit of relevance , I know it is Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4 (5)? How do I actually write that reference down in the correct way?

ALSO in Schedule 4 point 6 it says that 2 working days is presumed to be the timescale of posting, there is clearly some ambiguity here as they didn't post until late evening day 54 and with a second class stamp. Is this a trap? ;-) Do they want me to contest this point knowing that legally it may weaken me?

Hoping someone can help, and i do appreciate all the help I have got so far from this forum,

SDS

bazster

The crucial bit of wording in POFA 2012 is "presumed, unless the contrary is proved". If you have proof that it wasn't posted until the evening (franked envelope?) and that it was sent 2nd class then I'd say you have pretty compelling proof that it couldn't have been delivered in two working days! Remember, the standard of proof is "balance of probability", not "beyond reasonable doubt".

So I'd say they are SOL with this one!

Who's the PPC?

bod1467

But this would be only one argument in any appeal, and not even the key argument.

I mean - has anyone done a "Non-compliant with POFA so no liability"-only appeal (to PPC then POPLA)? (i.e. a single point appeal on the basis of POFA). I'm not sure even Pranky has done this.

summerdownsouth

It is UKPS

I have an enveloped franked 08.43pm on 18.08.14 (day 54)

I appreciate that this is not the single point of the argument but I thought it worth including if it was relevant and I only deduced it was relevant because i saw it mentioned so much about when to expect your NTK.

Would I put it in my first letter ? And I just wondered how to phrase that particular line if I did as I am not up to speed on the way to refer to legal points of reference.

Thanks

Redx

there is a template letter for a PPC appeal in the newbies sticky thread, post #1

add a point D) if you feel inclined to do so

summerdownsouth

Thank you, I have got the letter all done and ready to go so if I added a bit about the day 57 then what I am asking is what wording to use? I appreciate that I am not making myself very clear.

For example do i say;

As the NTK arrived 57 days after the ticket was issued you are have not been compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4, point 8 (5) ???

What I am worried about is if that is the correct legal way to write it? Have I the ( ) in the correct place etc. Or should I use the acronym 'POFA'?
I am sorry if these are basic questions but I want anything I write to look as professional as possible and i am not very experience with writing these things!

I don't even have to include it, I was only asking as i see it mentioned so often that the NTK must arrive between days 29 and 56 and so I assumed it was relevant. Will happily leave out if I am wrong :-)

bazster

You are over-thinking it. You're not writing the Magna Carta, and whatever you write they will reject anyway, so just get something off to them.

More attention to detail required if you appeal to PoPLA, but even there you are not being marked on presentation.

And yes it is relevant, you are right about that.

summerdownsouth

Ok thanks, I have simply put;

D) The NTK did not arrive within the timescales stipulated in the Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4, point 8 (5)

Thanks all

bazster

summerdownsouth wrote: »

Ok thanks, I have simply put;

D) The NTK did not arrive within the timescales stipulated in the Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4, point 8 (5)

Thanks all

That's fine for now.

Coupon-mad

Just to point out that you are actually talking about 'day 58', if you count the PCN date as day one, yes? Definitely too late. Keep the envelope as evidence for your POPLA appeal. As long as the keeper has not been mentioned in any appeal then you will win at POPLA...or IAS if it is UKPS (North West) Limited.

If it's to be an IAS appeal you need all the appeal points and evidence you can attach, which will include copies of the franked envelope and the Notice to Keeper. You will need to get a 'shift on' once you get a rejection letter and we'll help you build an IAS appeal - you will have a couple of weeks to do it once you get the rejection, that's all, as they allow just 21 days starting with the date of the reply. And if they send everything 2nd class you can see how tight your deadline will be!

Look at the winning IAS appeals linked in post #3 of the Newbies thread, in advance, if this is that IPC member and not UKPC.

Also compare that NTK to paragraph 8 of the POFA 2012 now - there will be other flaws, in the wording...please don't tell us it's compliant - if you think it is then you will have missed something! We are talking about being really pedantic and looking for exact matching words with the Act.

The_Deep

I do not understand. If the legislation states that it must arrive by the 56th day and it arrives later, then surely that is the sine qua non, the silver bullet, the coup de grace, why faff around with anything else?

If you really want to get these pariah companies out of car parks, you really must show some backbone.

OP the choice is yours. If you want to punish the PPCs, make a single point appeal to Popla. If some wet behind the ears law graduate rejects it then he/she is wrong in law, the decision can be appealed and complaints can be fired off to all compass points. It wii be allowed if you throw enough brown stuff. Once you have grasped the nettle, more timid souls will follow.