What are our rights? What should our next move be?

Geddesi

Hello everyone, I have been close to joining this forum for quite a while now but never actually done so until tonight. I will likely be spending a lot of time here thanks to the enormous amount of information which is shared here and much of it will prove very useful to me in the coming months.

I will start off by asking for help, as I am in definite need of it!

Basically, to try and cut a long and (very) stressful story short... My girlfriend and I have been working on renovating a flat since January 2014. This flat is owned by my girlfriends Mum and she plans on giving the flat to my girlfriend - an extremely generous thing to do right? The original plan was for us to move in together way back in January when we first got the keys and pay rent to the owner in order to clear off the remainder of the mortgage. When this was paid off, the flat would be transferred into my gf's name, as was originally planned. Well, that all sounded great and as you can imagine my girlfriend and I were both extremely excited to get in and finally start living together. Sadly though, those plans soon began crumbling away once we actually saw the flat, and the terrible state it was in. Bear in mind that we got told all that was needed was a lick of paint, but that couldn't have been any further from the truth.

Here is a list of the problems we have had to deal with since getting the keys:

Entire flat to be rewired as the wiring was not up to regulations.
Windows being replaced as they were rotten.
An entire new heating system being put into place (this work is still ongoing) as the heating in the flat did not work.
Removal of asbestos in certain areas of the flat.
Complete reskim of flat by a plasterer.
The roof being repaired by slaters as many of the slates were broken and as a result water was leaking through.
All rooms being full ripped out and being treated for damp.
Complete woodworm and wood rot treatment throughout due to signs of worm and rot.
Etc...

We are now finally getting to a stage where we can see the ending in sight. We have got contractors in to deal with the major work which was needing done, and we have done a lot of stuff ourselves - at least the stuff we can do ourselves that is - but we are now being told by my girlfriends mum aka the owner that there is no building insurance or contents insurance. This basically means if something was to happen to the flat we would lose EVERYTHING. As you can imagine this has infuriated us, we have literly poured all of our time, money and energy I to getting this place suitable for moving in and we are now being told this by the owner. She keeps telling us that she is not the landlord because she will be giving the flat to her daughter, but the fact is she still is the landlord. This makes it extremely hard for us to be able to do anything regarding insurance, and she seems very reluctant to help out with this. Yes, she has helped us financially with the costs of the major repairs such as the rewiring, roof work and new heating - but shouldn't she be doing this anyway? Especially when you consider that she is the owner of the property? Yes I know she plans to sign it over to her daughter eventually, but for now she is still ultimately in control. I am starting to worry with every extra pound I invest in this flat, I mean what if something was to go majorly wrong and I lose all the money I have invested? Not to mention my time!

I am basically stuck wondering what to do next. I really feel like I need to speak to an expert who can best advise me on what to do. Do I carry on as I am, putting my time and money into making this place liveable for me and my girlfriend, or do I refuse to do any more work until something legal is put in to place?

Sorry if this leaves you confused, I posted it in a hurry just after another dispute with the owner of the flat regarding building insurance. If there is anything else you guys need to know, please do ask and I will get back to you. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kynthia

The original plan left you completely unprotected so I'm surprised you even started on this. You have invested all of your savings into a property that you don't own, in the hope it will be transferred to someone else who you aren't even married to!!! Crazy.

Right, it's late so I'm not going to go into thus completely but you say it's a flat. Are you in England or Wales as then there would almost certainly be a freeholder who will have arranged the buildings insurance? As you live there you are responsible for your contents insurance.

Now have you got it in writing that the property will be transferred to your girlfriend, or that the money you are investing is a loan that will be repaid by the transfer of the property? What about some agreement between you and your girlfriend that protects you, once she owns the place and you don't?

mrginge

It's incredibly kind of you to spend your money on someone else's house.
Lets hope that your girlfriends mother doesn't change her mind eh!
What happens if your girlfriend dumps you tomorrow?

Based on what you've posted, Lets just say you've been a little foolish. Go see a solicitor immediately.

Geddesi

Kynthia wrote: »

The original plan left you completely unprotected so I'm surprised you even started on this. You have invested all of your savings into a property that you don't own, in the hope it will be transferred to someone else who you aren't even married to!!! Crazy.

Right, it's late so I'm not going to go into thus completely but you say it's a flat. Are you in England or Wales as then there would almost certainly be a freeholder who will have arranged the buildings insurance? As you live there you are responsible for your contents insurance.

Now have you got it in writing that the property will be transferred to your girlfriend, or that the money you are investing is a loan that will be repaid by the transfer of the property? What about some agreement between you and your girlfriend that protects you, once she owns the place and you don't?

Hello Kynthia, thanks for the reply.

Yes, crazy indeed! I am in fact amazed it has taken me this long to realise just how crazy I actually am. I am from Scotland, and the flat is based in Scotland, Aberdeen. I am aware that we are responsible for contents insurance.

We have nothing in writing. Yes you read that right, nothing. It is a hard situation because the owner of the flat suffers from depression and overall laziness - this makes her impossible to talk to at the best of times, and even worse when we bring up issues with this flat. Like I said, she has helped us financially with the main costs but considering she is the landlord she should be doing that anyway!

No agreement between me and my girlfriend which would protect me either sadly... where would I go for this, a solicitor?

As you can tell I am very new (and foolish) to all of this, but at least I am taking a stand now. I just hope it's not too late.

Geddesi

mrginge wrote: »

It's incredibly kind of you to spend your money on someone else's house.
Lets hope that your girlfriends mother doesn't change her mind eh!
What happens if your girlfriend dumps you tomorrow?

Based on what you've posted, Lets just say you've been a little foolish. Go see a solicitor immediately.

Hello mrginge, thanks for the reply.

Yeah I know, and I feel like an idiot that this is only dawning on me now - 8 months after getting the keys!! My girlfriend has said that if her Mum was to do something that cruel, she would simply never speak to her again. I know that sounds harsh, but we know for sure she wouldn't want to risk losing her daughter (she doesn't have much family as it is you see) not much of a guarantee, but it has put my mind at ease, well until now that is.

I also highly doubt my girlfriend would dump me, we do plan to get married and eventually have kids in the future, but your right, I still NEED to get something legally binding done. I have invested far too much time and money now for it to all simply blow up in my face...

I will start to look for a decent solicitor today. I need some assurance before I continue with anything else.

dekoder

Putting aside the fact that you have nothing in writing and you're completely unprotected I don't see why you think her mum is financially responsible for the repairs or paying insurance. From your post I gather she's not living there and wasn't renting the place.

If she's genuine and assuming all ends well and you and your girlfriend stay together/start a family she is giving you a big financial gift.

You and your girlfriend need to find time when she's in positive mood (maybe take her out? go on a day break somewhere?) and explain in a calm and friendly way that you need to sort the legal side of the flat and the reasons for it.

Kirstyb1987

I agree with Dekoder. Why do you think that your girlfriends mum should pay for repairs on a flat she is GIVING to her daughter. She is already gifting your girlfriend the flat? What else do you want?

princeofpounds

Given everything that has gone on, you probably have been building up a beneficial interest in the property. I'm afraid I don't know the Scottish structure for such laws. But all this work has clearly been on the understanding that someone will benefit from it (awkwardly your girlfriend rather than you).

That's not much protection however, as it would mean an expensive court battle to try to enforce this, with uncertain prospects, though I guess you would win something back.

I am sure there is a desire for caution given that you don't want informal arrangements to fall apart, but there is also a point at which you have to stop relying on hope and a handshake.

To me, the 'natural' compromise would be to negotiate the sale of the property to you and your girlfriend ASAP, with some recognition of your contribution to the uplift in value, and some recognition of hers.

And you must stop pouring money into something you don't own. You have been really stupid, but I think you know this.

Geddesi

dekoder wrote: »

Putting aside the fact that you have nothing in writing and you're completely unprotected I don't see why you think her mum is financially responsible for the repairs or paying insurance. From your post I gather she's not living there and wasn't renting the place.

If she's genuine and assuming all ends well and you and your girlfriend stay together/start a family she is giving you big financial gift.

You and your girlfriend need to find time when she's in positive mood (maybe take her out? go on a day break somewhere?) and explain in a calm and friendly way that you need to sort the legal side of the flat and the reasons for it.

Hello dekoder, thanks for the response.

She is the owner of the flat. She has owned it for at least 25 years. Before we got the keys to the flat, she had tenants staying there - this was definitely illegal because the flat was in absolutely no fit state for this. There was no heating, dodgy wiring, damp and mould etc... but she was doing this whole letting process in a very obscure way.

I completely understand how generous this is of her, if all goes to plan. With the amount of work we are putting into this flat it is going to be worth a decent amount of money. The place was an absolute shi*hole before, but it really is taking shape now. We have tried taking her out places before for lunch, but whenever we bring up the flat she acts as if she isn't interested, or says she ain't feeling well. I am just worried there is something more which she ain't telling us - and this is why I am getting more and more worried with every £ I put into this place.

princeofpounds

don't see why you think her mum is financially responsible for the repairs or paying insurance. From your post I gather she's not living there and wasn't renting the place.

Why do you think that your girlfriends mum should pay for repairs on a flat she is GIVING to her daughter. She is already gifting your girlfriend the flat? What else do you want?

These are two really bad answer that totally miss the point.

She may SAY she is giving them the flat.

Yet there is zero commitment from her to do so. No evidence that she genuinely intends to do so. Indeed the signs are (refusal to enter legally binding arrangement, avoidance of discussion) that she may not be acting in total good faith.

Meanwhile, as the owner of the property and receiving rental income, she absolutely is the landlord and legally responsible for keeping the flat in good repair.

It's fine if the tenants are happy to pay for that in return for something, but a verbal promise with no supporting evidence or legal contract is not payment. It's payment worth the paper it's printed on.

Geddesi

princeofpounds wrote: »

These are two really bad answer that totally miss the point.

She may SAY she is giving them the flat.

Yet there is zero commitment from her to do so. No evidence that she genuinely intends to do so. Indeed the signs are (refusal to enter legally binding arrangement, avoidance of discussion) that she may not be acting in total good faith.

Meanwhile, as the owner of the property and receiving rental income, she absolutely is the landlord and legally responsible for keeping the flat in good repair.

It's fine if the tenants are happy to pay for that in return for something, but a verbal promise with no supporting evidence or legal contract is not payment. It's payment worth the paper it's printed on.

Exactly my point. All it has been since January is words, we have seen nothing on paper. She has said countless times "But I am giving you the flat, I am giving you the flat..." but that is simply words. Yes, I understand fully how much she would be giving us if the flat really does get put into my GF's name, but again we have nothing to go on other than her words. If the flat was 100% in my GF's name, we would have been paying for the repairs ourselves most likely, but the fact is on paper we own NOTHING. We try explaining this to people, and they seem to think we are being extremely ungrateful asking the owner for money to do repairs when we will be given the flat, but she is still the owner for now, so rightfully I feel she should be paying for these things. Is this wrong of me?