Parking fine for sleeping at South Mimms Welcome Break Services (ParkingEYE)

Mervin321

Hi everyone,

I have recently recieved a PCN from those lovely people at ParkingEye for spending around 5 hours in the South Mimms Welcome Break services car park. The driver of the vehicle was falling asleep having been at a festival in Germany all weekend and chose to drive to the nearest services to get some sleep rather than almost certain death had they continued on their journey. They weren't aware that sleeping in the car constituted "Parking" and that staying for more than 2 hours would result in an obscene charge!

I've spent a few hours reading all the threads on here and am ready to begin my appeal.

I am now at the stage of drafting my response to ParkingEye and plan to use the short template suggested:

Dear xxxxxxxx

re PCN number xxxxxxx
I have received your parking invoice impersonating a 'parking ticket' and will be complaining in the strongest terms to your client. No doubt you convinced them that your operation is some sort of 'parking space maximisation scheme' when it is nothing of the sort and is simply there to maximise your own profits.

I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
A The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss.
B You are not the landowner and do not have locus standi.
C Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract.

If you choose not to cancel this invoice you must issue a rejection letter in reply to my appeal, explaining:
1 The legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
If you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis at POPLA, I will point out that it was a flawed decision, it is not binding, and it is set for the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.
2 Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site.
3 Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves.
4 A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.
5 The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS.

A certificate of posting will be obtained for all my written responses and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

(Sorry it wont let me post a link as I'm a new user)

Do I need to customise this template significantly or can I send it pretty much as it is?

I'm also working on a letter to the Manager of the services. Do you have any advice on what to put in here? Is it actually worth doing? Will they take any notice of my explanation? By all accounts this service station appear to be one of the worst when it comes to these unscrupulous charges and don't seem very forgiving!

Thank you for your help.

Merv.

Dee140157

Send off appeal and read the POPLA examples ready for stage 2 appeal, focussing on MSA ones.

You can try complaining too.

The_Deep

It is not a fine and you were not surcharged for falling asleep. You were ticketed for bilking the £10 parking charge.

People on here will no doubt get you off scot free, but, had you filled your car with petrol and driven off without paying you would not be treated so obligingly.

Mervin321

Ok cool. Cheers. Do I have to be careful what I admit to when appealing to to land owner or can I say what I want? I.e. registered keeper v driver etc?

Fruitcake

Mervin321 wrote: »

Ok cool. Cheers. Do I have to be careful what I admit to when appealing to to land owner or can I say what I want? I.e. registered keeper v driver etc?

Don't reveal who was driving whether it be to parking lie or the landowner. Use terms like, the driver did this, not I did this.

Stroma

The_Deep wrote: »

It is not a fine and you were not surcharged for falling asleep. You were ticketed for bilking the £10 parking charge.

People on here will no doubt get you off scot free, but, had you filled your car with petrol and driven off without paying you would not be treated so obligingly.

So if someone didn't see the signs they are supposed to be psychic now ? This person was taking the advice of the ministry of transport and taking a break, they obviously needed it otherwise they wouldn't have overstayed !! It's beyond idiotic to have such time limits in these car parks, I've never been to one that is close to full in all my years of travelling the motorway network !

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

So if someone didn't see the signs they are supposed to be psychic now ? This person was taking the advice of the ministry of transport and taking a break, they obviously needed it otherwise they wouldn't have overstayed !! It's beyond idiotic to have such time limits in these car parks, I've never been to one that is close to full in all my years of travelling the motorway network !

I find it scandalous that when the continental motorways encourage drivers to take a nap and stay for free, the UK demands a charge or issues a ticket if you do.

Just done 1200 miles travelling round the Highlands and on the way there and back stopped at a number of Motorway service stations for comfort breaks (it's an age thing!). Every one had signs up quite prominently warning of 2 hour maximum stays or pay a parking charge, so the psychic suggestion is a bit OTT.

Technically, the Deep is correct about OP bilking the charge, but as it is doubtful if the signage meets BPA and other minimum standards, and, of course, the penalty for overstaying is extortionate, the demand should be appealed as normal.

But drivers should be aware of the universal 2 hour limit and that charges apply after that and should avoid putting themselves in a position of getting a PCN.

ampersand

I successfully appealed 2 of these parking lie events with great help from Thread, same circs, not festival,sadly:-) - Birchanger Green.

op - as RK I was able to replicate the driver's entry to this cash-trap. Placed camera on steering wheel. 37 photos show not one of the 40 signs pe claim are there. Near deserted car park. Night-time. Weather?

I empathise. Be prepared for lies, bullying reams of SUCCESS IN COURT p/w[garbage], mis-related dates, obfuscation.

I don't patronise these places, would never have dreamt of parking charges being applied, no signs evident[plenty for commerces]went straight to empty area[safety]and slept.

Now, if you popped into starbucks for a wake-me-up coffee, see here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.php?searchid=156454329

South Mimms outlet comes well out of these.

The_Deep

So if someone didn't see the signs they are supposed to be psychic

They are probably lying, or plain stupid.

I agree that MSAs should not charge for parking, the sky high prices in the restaurants and petrol stations should cover this, but this is Rip Off Britain, where an ice cream from a van costs more thasn a gallon of the stuff in Iceland.

But I just do not understand how anyone could not see the signs, or be aware that charges were made, it is not as if MSAs are a new thing.

I think that in almost every case where a motorist falls asleep in a MSA, they know that there is a charge, but take a chance, either on not falling asleep, or getting off without paying.

Mervin321

The_Deep wrote: »

So if someone didn't see the signs they are supposed to be psychic

They are probably lying, or plain stupid.

I agree that MSAs should not charge for parking, the sky high prices in the restaurants and petrol stations should cover this, but this is Rip Off Britain, where an ice cream from a van costs more thasn a gallon of the stuff in Iceland.

But I just do not understand how anyone could not see the signs, or be aware that charges were made, it is not as if MSAs are a new thing.

I think that in almost every case where a motorist falls asleep in a MSA, they know that there is a charge, but take a chance, either on not falling asleep, or getting off without paying.

I was fully aware that you can only park for 2 hours without paying. I wasn't aware that being inside your car was considered "parking" and that the whole system is automatic. I would have expected someone to knock on the window if it was a problem. Next time I'll just park on the grass verge or somewhere where they have no cameras!

The_Deep

I wasn't aware that being inside your car was considered "parking"

It would surely depend on how long you were there. If it was a few minutes while you looked at a map, I would say it was not. If you were on the backseat and snoring then it probably would.

How would you define parking?