Returning a Laptop under distance selling/consumer contracts regulations

timb999

Hi all,

Hope you can help. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I wanted to ask about my specific case.

I bought a new laptop this week from Currys/PCWorld - I ordered it online and it arrived by courier.

Well...as it turns out...it isn't exactly what I wanted...the quality of the screen is not as good as expected, and the performance of some aspects are also poorer than expected (specifically the 2D graphics performance in Windows).

I specifically tried to look at this laptop in a store before purchasing - but there were none in stock anywhere near to me - i.e. none on the entire page of nearest stores - I assumed this must be a special order for shops to receive it.

Currys/PCWorld T&C's state that if I have used the laptop by inputting any data etc, then all bets are off and they won't take it back.

Of course, to test it, you have to switch it on, and let Windows install itself hence rendering it unreturnable in their eyes?

Please can you let me know how I stand in this case? Am I able to return it for a full refund, or do Currys/PCWorld T&C's override the distance selling/consumer contracts regulation?

If I am within my rights to send back...should I try to factory reset it, or just leave them to do this?

Many thanks for your help!

Cheers

Tim

frugal_mike

The Consumer Contracts Regulations cannot be overridden by the terms and conditions of any shop. However these regulations do allow shops to reduce any refund they give if a consumer's inspection of the goods goes beyond what is reasonable and the value of the goods are reduced.

So it is almost certainly not legal to have a blanket refusal to accept returns of laptops the consumer has used, but it is legal to reduce the refund. The reduction can be up to the full price paid for the goods too.

I dont think we have any definitive evidence of whether using a laptop would be considered a reasonable inspection or not, and you aren't the first person to ask this in recent months. I'd say its unlikely you will get a full refund if they know you have used it.

browneyedbazzi

A retailers own terms and conditions cannot override terms and conditions implied by Regulations. As this is not a product to which an exemption from cancellation rights apply you do have a right to cancel the contract and return the laptop for a refund....under the new Regs the retailer can reduce the value of the refund to reflect any damage/loss in value to the goods due to the customer's handling. The company may argue that by turning it on and using it you have reduced its value because it can no longer be sold as new and reduce the refund they give you to reflect this. Whether or not they'd be right in doing so and get away with if if you sued them is debatable - as the Regs are so new there is no case law and at this point all we can do is guess how the courts will interpret them.

neilmcl

This is what the regulations state:

(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.
...
...
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(12) For the purposes of paragraph (9) handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop.

Given that you can demo PCs in most retailers I would doubt they would be able to class what you've done as handling beyond what is necessary.

unholyangel

Hmm but remember, they cant deduct anything from the refund if they've failed to provide the required information.

browneyedbazzi

neilmcl wrote: »

This is what the regulations state:

Given that you can demo PCs in most retailers I would doubt they would be able to class what you've done as handling beyond what is necessary.

You can demo PCs in retail shops, but usually that is a specific item set up for demos and you wouldn't be allowed to open up boxes on the shelf and test out a particular computer before purchasing it.

SuperHan

neilmcl wrote: »

Given that you can demo PCs in most retailers I would doubt they would be able to class what you've done as handling beyond what is necessary.

This is VERY sketchy though, for a number of reasons:

1 - you would not be able to turn on and install windows on the machine that you were going to purchase if visiting in the shop.

2 - most of them have demos on there so you can only look at that, rather than actually use the computer and test it how you would use it at home.

They should be accepting a return, but I think once a computer is booted up, it is not immediately resaleable, and so a reductions can be made to the refund to account for this.

I would expect a £50 reduction to be reasonable, given this is approximately the charge by PCW to restore a computer to factory settings. Remember though, for data protection, a simple factory reset is often not enough to then resell a computer and a more intense reset has to be done.

You will be as well escalating the issue as high as possible, as generally their front line staff are not well versed in what was the DSR and now the CCR, especially given the subjective nature of laptops.

timb999

That's great - thanks for the prompt replies and advice everyone.

Ok, so the general consensus is that yes I should be able to return it, but they might try to reduce my refund based on the fact that I have switched it on.

I will post back the outcome to this thread!

Cheers

Tim

System

SuperHan wrote: »

This is VERY sketchy though, for a number of reasons:

1 - you would not be able to turn on and install windows on the machine that you were going to purchase if visiting in the shop.

2 - most of them have demos on there so you can only look at that, rather than actually use the computer and test it how you would use it at home.

They should be accepting a return, but I think once a computer is booted up, it is not immediately resaleable, and so a reductions can be made to the refund to account for this.

I would expect a £50 reduction to be reasonable, given this is approximately the charge by PCW to restore a computer to factory settings. Remember though, for data protection, a simple factory reset is often not enough to then resell a computer and a more intense reset has to be done.

You will be as well escalating the issue as high as possible, as generally their front line staff are not well versed in what was the DSR and now the CCR, especially given the subjective nature of laptops.

Sorry, I disagree. Switching a laptop on is the only way of checking the resolution of the screen so I believe that that is fair.

The fact that they have demo models is a red herring. With a demo model you can see the resolution/quality of the screen, therefore you have the same rights with the delivered item of making the same check and if the only way of doing this is to allow the OS to install then the retailer needs to accept this and not make any deductions

SuperHan

!!!!!! wrote: »

Sorry, I disagree. Switching a laptop on is the only way of checking the resolution of the screen so I believe that that is fair.

The fact that they have demo models is a red herring. With a demo model you can see the resolution/quality of the screen, therefore you have the same rights with the delivered item of making the same check and if the only way of doing this is to allow the OS to install then the retailer needs to accept this and not make any deductions

I don't disagree with you. However, the law is relatively new and absolutely not clear in this respect.

If the OP feels so, then I don't think he would be wrong to take it to court, however, it is not guaranteed that he would win given the ambiguity in the law.

Screen resolutions are cited in the specifications before you buy - so you would know the resolution on paper... I know, not the same as seeing it, but it would count against the OP.

But the fact we can have a discussion about it highlights how unclear it is, and I can bet my bottom dollar that the retailer will take my side over yours, as it finds in their favour. Currys actual policy says that they don't accept the returns at all, so they have gone very hard line - which is unlikely to stand in court.

It will be interesting to see how the laptop issue is resolved in court in future. I can't quite believe they didn't clarify this in the law, but did clarify the law regarding a toaster....

unholyangel

timb999 wrote: »

That's great - thanks for the prompt replies and advice everyone.

Ok, so the general consensus is that yes I should be able to return it, but they might try to reduce my refund based on the fact that I have switched it on.

I will post back the outcome to this thread!

Cheers

Tim

Only if they have provided certain information (off the top off my head I think they need to provide your cancellation rights and the conditions of those rights) in a durable medium.

If they havent then they cant make any deduction - regardless of how much handling you've given the item to diminish its value.