Tipping removal men?

PenguinJim

Are you saying that the removal people (who are apparently all men?) are mean for not tipping me? Or that I am mean for expecting a tip when I provide service that is above and beyond what is required by our contract?

If it's the former, I guess I agree, although I was simply posing the question!

If it's the latter, I thought that tipping was exactly something to show appreciation for someone providing better service than necessary? Isn't it incredibly hypocritical to think it's essential in some circumstances but mean in others? It seems like a double standard to me.

And as you don't think that tipping can ever be degrading, perhaps you can brush up on your reading today - you can find a lot of good articles on the subject here. Maybe it's still the case in your small community where only men can work as removal people, but in the wider world it's an increasingly outdated tradition, along the lines of paying women a smaller salary than men for an identical job.

Like I said before, I would tip for goods and service of a higher level than that agreed by the contract. But generally, I wouldn't tip just because the company on the other end of the contract has incorrectly calculated their staff salaries and their services (e.g. menu charges; daily fees).

lessonlearned

PenguinJim wrote: »

Are you saying that the removal people (who are apparently all men?) are mean for not tipping me? Or that I am mean for expecting a tip when I provide service that is above and beyond what is required by our contract?

If it's the former, I guess I agree, although I was simply posing the question!

You know exactly what I meant.

I have always kept my removal men well fed and watered. So far they have actually always been men although I appreciate it is not a male bastion. I have also always tipped them. Its a very demanding job.

BTW I do not live in a "small world" - I live in the real world and am familiar with the concept of females doing what in the past may well have been considered male only jobs.

It is a long standing tradition in our household that we ply everyone with food and drink, visitors as well as removal people and tradespeople. We also tip our service providers when they do a good job for us.

And yes I do generally help the removal people by both packing and lifting a few boxes - despite being a decrepit 63 year old female with a bad back.

I'm sorry I couldn't read your link so cannot comment.

I have noticed that an aversion to tipping does seem to be more prevalent among younger people. Maybe this is because there has been a certain amount of blurring over class distinction over time. The dividing line between working and middle class is not so clear cut so perhaps people are unsure of etiquette.

Although I am now relatively comfortable I was born into quite a poor household. My father had a second job as a taxi driver and my first job was in a hairdressing salon. I know how it feels to stand on your feet all day to earn a very modest wage.

Both my father and I were always grateful if tips came our way, it made quite a difference to our incomes.

I remember what it feels like scraping by on a low wage. I realise there is an argument for better pay but I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. I can't see that happening just yet.

I worked hard and worked my way through the ranks. Now that Im reasonably comfortable it pleases me that I am in a position to help low paid workers a little.

My remark about meanness was based on a lifetime of observation. I have found that there is often a direct correlation between parsimony and meanness of spirit.

I have noticed that people who are overly tightfisted often also display a certain meanness of spirit. My late MIL was a classic case - never a kind word to say about anyone. She was mean with money and mean with her time and affections. She would never deign to help anyone less fortunate than herself. I have met a lot of people like that.

When I was young free and single I noticed that the boyfriends who were tight were also the ones who were the most mean spirited.

My husband died a couple of weeks ago. He was one of the most generous people to walk the earth. It is his funeral this week. Letters and cards have been pouring in. Everyone without fail has commented on how warm, kind and generous he was. He also happened to be a generous tipper…….

The funeral is going to be a big one because so many people want to express their gratitude for all the kindnesses and generousity he bestowed upon them. He had a huge impact on so many people.

His mother touched no-one and sad to say there were few who mourned her passing.

Perhaps tipping is something that older generations just do as a matter of course, especially those of us who were from modest working class backgrounds. We know how tough life can be when you don't earn much and just how much difference a tip can make.

PenguinJim

Charity: Water. Bring clean water to 100,000 people in the Sahel.

Great Ormond Street Hospital. Help dying children and their families.

Child's Play. Improving the lives of children in hospitals around the world.

Shelter. Your money can help a family to stay in their home.

Centre Point. Help homeless young people to have a future.

Tipping. If you've just paid the employed person in front of you to do a job, why not then donate some money to them as well*?

If preferring the first five charity options to the sixth makes me "mean", then I take it as a compliment. I don't give to charity to impress people or for my own sense of self-satisfaction - although I recognise that these benefits exist if I do become a consistent tipper.

*Assuming they work in one of a small number of arbitrary sectors, of course!

lessonlearned

You are not the only one to give to charity, Jim…….

Why so angry.

You do not chose to tip, fair enough that's your perogative.

I do, that's my perogative.

It does not make me a greater or lesser person than you, any more than your chosen charities make you a greater or lesser person.

Chill.

PenguinJim

When you called me a "tightwad", "mean", and "mean-spirited", I wondered why you were getting angry! It's only an online forum, but it's sometimes easy to infer emotion from plain text where none exists. I wasn't even responding to your post per se, though I would cite my partner as the very opposite of your lifetime of observation - it's incredibly difficult to get her to spend any of her income on herself, refusing to buy drinks for the house when she can just drink tap water, and only spending a couple of pounds on clothes every few months, but she's incredibly generous with what she has, helping out people in need without a second thought. Indeed, one of the great things about being an MSE is that one has a lot more money available to help people who need it, be they friends or strangers, although cash isn't the only way to help.

But I haven't claimed that I give to charity, as I think it would be rather crass to make such a claim - I simply pointed out five charities that help homeless and jobless young people and dying children and families, who in my opinion are more in need of my help than employed removal people, taxi drivers and waiting staff. It wasn't aimed at you specifically, and of course you're welcome to disagree. I'm not going to challenge your accusations of my being mean-spirited because my good deeds are their own reward - I do not do them for bragging rights. (I realise that I said that I sometimes tip, which is technically giving to charity, but the comment was made to highlight that I am a hypocrite, so I hope it is forgiven as it is self-deprecating! )

(Those are the Donate pages I have linked above, by the way, in case anyone here wants to make a donation - please just go through the link and donate!)

Alias_Omega

I don't really understand why you need to tip someone if they have provided you with a quote for the work.

If they do the job quick, they work less for the same amount of £££.

If they do the job slow, they work more for the same amount of £££.

If they do the job well, they don't have to pay for damages.

If they do the job bad, then they might have to pay for damages.

Tipping - No.

However ~ If I was going to hire a van (£80), then have a few friends "shift some stuff", then easily crates of beer all round..

lessonlearned

PenguinJim wrote: »

Because you've already paid them for a job well done? Generally speaking, tipping is on the decline. It was discussed in great detail a few weeks ago here. Since then the BBC had an article about tipping being on the way out in France. And, of course, in some locations tipping is discouraged and considered insulting.

Oddly enough, I think tipping is illogical, an outdated tradition, an absolutely stupid thing to do and completely unfair on everybody as some sectors have employees who are paid lower wages as the employer assumes they will also get tips, while the other sectors have employees who do an equally good job but will never get a tip in their life.

But I still do it sometimes.

I would prefer to hire a van and move everything myself rather than spend money on removal people, personally, so I don't know if I'd ever be in a situation to tip a removal person myself. If they did it faster than we'd agreed in the contract and with everything unbroken, though, I imagine I would.

This ^ plus your comment about how the removal men should give you a tip because you made gave them food……..

Not even remotely angry - it just struck me as being a bit mean is all, especially after your comment that you think tipping is stupid.

Reminds me of people whom I know to be loaded who refuse to tip waiting staff as a "matter of principle". To them it might appear stupid and illogical but to the person receiving the tip it can make a huge difference to their pay.

I know this from my own personal experience. When I was starting out I was always extremely grateful for tips. As well as starting my working life in a hairdressing salon I've also waited on table in my time. Trust me, hard work for little pay. Now that I am in a position to return the favour for all those people who were kind enough and generous enough to tip me I like to keep up the tradition.

A sort of "Pay It Forward" if you like.

Each to their own.