Speeding ticket received - no idea who driver was

bargepole

The_Deep wrote: »

... Really, MUII that most forces are happy to provide photographs "to help you identify the driver" When I received an NIP at Nottingham photographs were readily provided. In Reading bus lane penalties photographs are available to view on the internet.

Where else do you think I am wrong?

Yes, but the OP has already stated that the SCP sent him a photograph which only showed the rear of the car, and the numberplate. This would suggest the device was a fixed GATSO, which only flashes when you've passed it, so no amount of photos will identify the driver.


I've already given the correct advice in post #8.


If anyone has had more success in fighting these cases in the Magistrates' Court (see my sig), feel free to disagree.


Or, the OP could post this on Pepipoo, where he'll get exactly the same advice.

harveybobbles

I like post #8.

I too am in a simialr situation as the OP:

NIP arrived Friday dated a few days previous for 39 in a 30.

Both drove down this section of road around the time of the speeding offence. but we were moving furniture from one address to another address less than 2 miles away.

So neither of us know who was driving at the actual time of the offence.

Neither of us want to admit to it as it could be false.

Coupon-mad

bargepole knows his stuff so follow his advice on this one, or post on pepipoo forum to have it reiterated:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5

HTH

nobile

bargepole wrote: »

The correct course of action here is write a letter, explaining the circumstances of multiple potential users of the vehicle, and giving their full names, address, dates of birth and driving licence numbers.


Explain that you have made exhaustive enquiries to try to establish who was driving, but none of the possible named drivers has a clear recollection of doing so.


You should also state that you have exercised 'reasonable diligence' in trying to ascertain the identity of the driver, but have been unable to do so. As such, you believe that you have complied with your obligations under s172 of the Road Traffic Act.


You shouldn't get a conviction for this.

Thanks BP.

When you 'conviction', what do you mean? Sorry as I am not offay with motoring/legal jargon!

nobile

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

That is not "evidence", as suggested by the OP. There is no "inalienable right to view the evidence prior to committing yourself to a definitive answer."** They don't have to provide, and anyway, we know they aren't any help in this case. So, you're not wrong there, as such.

However, as pointed out by others, prevaricating over who may have been driving, including not signing, will lead to a Failing to Furnish prosecution, no matter how unfair it may seem. To defend such a charge will need demonstration of exhaustive and detailed efforts to determine who the driver was, not simply "I asked around and everyone denied it was them."


[** EDIT, to save misunderstanding. You can't demand evidence until you've decided to go Not Guilty. In other words, you can't ask for their evidence in order to decide if they've got enough against you. Once you've got a summons for an offence, then you can start to get the prosecution evidence, but not before. Photos to help identify the driver is a courtesy, nothing more.]

We arent trying to evade anything, except court. I really dont want to go to court but think the 3pts/fine might just be inevitable

Cyberman60

Have a whip-round and pay the fine !!!

atilla

nobile wrote: »

We arent trying to evade anything, except court. I really dont want to go to court but think the 3pts/fine might just be inevitable

Why??

Why not just do as Bargepole suggested...and all the fleet managers across the land do.
You say/know it wasn't you, so why take the points for the others? You now know what can happen when you do that.

esmerobbo

Cyberman60 wrote: »

Have a whip-round and pay the fine !!!

And who gets the points and maybe a conviction for PCOJ?

OP Have you tried to tie it down to someone, I would assume if the driver was visiting hospital they would have spent some time there, or was the car being used as a ferry by going backward and forward.

Bargepole is bang on the money as long as you have shown due diligence, however ensure that you have.

As long as your not in Scotland it may ease someone into coughing up as at 35 in a 30 a SAC should be offered so no points to anyone.

bargepole

nobile wrote: »

Thanks BP.

When you 'conviction', what do you mean? Sorry as I am not offay with motoring/legal jargon!

If you send the letter as I advised in post #8, there won't be any offer of a fixed penalty, as no driver will have been nominated.


If the Police want to try and take it further, they will have to issue a summons against you for Failure to Furnish under s172 of the RTA.


This will mean a court appearance, and you will need to convince a bench of Magistrates that you did everything you could. If you were unlucky enough to be found guilty, that would be a conviction, which you could then appeal to the Crown Court, and get the case heard by a properly qualified Judge.

The_Deep

Bargepole sets out what, in an ideal world, should happen, but it does not always work out like that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/6215293.stmbut

Sometimes it does though

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-202833/Christine-Hamilton-cleared-speeding.html

and of course, if the RK does not drive, they can avoid the points.

The law really is an !!! sometimes.

The above word which the nanny filter has deleted is a subgenus of Equus (single-toed (hooved) grazing animal) that encompasses several subspecies of Equidae