Speeding ticket received - no idea who driver was

nobile

Hi

About a month ago my mum got taken ill, rushed into hospital.

She was in there for 10 days & had a minor heart procedure.

2 of our cars were off the road, meaning we just had the use of mine - which was used back & forth to the hospital sometimes 5-6 times a day, used by myself, my wife, my brother, sister etc.

We've received a speeding ticket for that period (35mph in a 30mph zone).

I wrote to the ticket office explaining that I had no idea who the driver was. I requested a photo so we could make out who the driver was & they would accept the consequences).

The reply included a close up of the car, but only of the back of the car & the reg plate. You cannot see inside the car, and the reply also stated that the camera was for speed only not identification.

And they sent us another request form asking us who the driver was.

So Ive sent it back saying as per my original letter, we dont know, and if they could advise us what to do.

What should I do? Just accept the penalty in my name as I am the registered owner? I'm pretty sure it wasnt me as I didnt go to the hospital in the evening during that 10 days but the others did. Confused!

DUTR

nobile wrote: »

Hi

About a month ago my mum got taken ill, rushed into hospital.

She was in there for 10 days & had a minor heart procedure.

2 of our cars were off the road, meaning we just had the use of mine - which was used back & forth to the hospital sometimes 5-6 times a day, used by myself, my wife, my brother, sister etc.

We've received a speeding ticket for that period (35mph in a 30mph zone).

I wrote to the ticket office explaining that I had no idea who the driver was. I requested a photo so we could make out who the driver was & they would accept the consequences).

The reply included a close up of the car, but only of the back of the car & the reg plate. You cannot see inside the car, and the reply also stated that the camera was for speed only not identification.

And they sent us another request form asking us who the driver was.

So Ive sent it back saying as per my original letter, we dont know, and if they could advise us what to do.

What should I do? Just accept the penalty in my name as I am the registered owner? I'm pretty sure it wasnt me as I didnt go to the hospital in the evening during that 10 days but the others did. Confused!

Well the penalty for not furnishing the name of a driver is 6 points and a high fine, so I know which I would choose out of the two.
Taking the points though if you know you were not driving is also illegal, ask Chris Hune

arbroath_lass

Why not just ask the "potentials" who was speeding in your car?

nobile

We are all potentials.

Because the camera is literally 2 mins drive from our house, it could have been any of us.

All of us have clean licences. (not any more!!)

Oh well. I think I'll write to them again.

Cheers all.

matttye

If you accept liability and it turns out not to be you that is perverting the course of justice.

The legitimate thing to do is not to reply, as you don't know, but that carries stiffer penalties.

Post #3 is good advice - also ask if any of them recall a speed camera flashing.

Umkomaas

This needs moving to the appropriate forum. This one is for private parking issues.

Speeding is somewhat at the other end of the spectrum I would suggest!

arbroath_lass

nobile wrote: »

We are all potentials.

Really? Every one of the drivers drove at 35 on that stretch of road?


You've already said you didn't go in the evening so it couldn't have been you.

bargepole

Umkomaas wrote: »

This needs moving to the appropriate forum. This one is for private parking issues.

Speeding is somewhat at the other end of the spectrum I would suggest!

The correct course of action here is write a letter, explaining the circumstances of multiple potential users of the vehicle, and giving their full names, address, dates of birth and driving licence numbers.


Explain that you have made exhaustive enquiries to try to establish who was driving, but none of the possible named drivers has a clear recollection of doing so.


You should also state that you have exercised 'reasonable diligence' in trying to ascertain the identity of the driver, but have been unable to do so. As such, you believe that you have complied with your obligations under s172 of the Road Traffic Act.


You shouldn't get a conviction for this.

boliston

It sounds like the only "legal" route is to accept that it will have to go via the court system rather than fixed penalty, but there is a risk that the person found guilty based on the evidence could end up with a higher penalty. Someone randomly "taking" the points is a far greater offence than speeding itself - i think it could even mean prison so not worth the risk!

matttye

Were all of these people insured to drive your car and do they have valid licences etc.? (Certain problems e.g. an expired driving licence can invalidate insurance.)

If not, you will be admitting a separate offence of permitting your car to be driven without insurance if you tell them that you've questioned all of your relatives but can't ascertain the driver.

The_Deep

Get all the drivers together to discuss this. See if one of you can "remember".

The form you are being asked to complete is actually a signed confession.
The registered keeper is placed in the position of having to grass someone up or confess and the document becomes their prima facie evidence in court.
Ether way it is the signature that seals it as far as the prosecution of the offence (not crime) is concerned, so offender rather than criminal is a more accurate description.

The ‘fess laws are arguably a breach of the human rights legislation insofar as you should not be required under penalty of law to incriminate yourself, and the precedent at Bristol Crown Court shows that you are under no legal obligation to sign.

The purpose of the law is to trap people that are intent on evading responsibility rather that simply debating culpability. In reality, the authorities don’t care who confesses as long as one does. It also raises the interesting situation of penalty points being applied to the keeper who has absolutely no obligation to even hold a licence.
The usual practice in these kinds of cases is to adopt the line of least resistance.
Examples include which of you drives the most or which of you would gain the higher insurance penalty with the offence registered and the ultimate decider usually being that it is a better regarded offence to be guilty of failing to grass someone than to be found guilty of a traffic offence.

You have an inalienable right to view the evidence prior to committing yourself to a definitive answer. And failing conclusive visual proof of the guilty party, if you have the balls to defy by failing to sign the declaration (on the grounds of possible perjury) could well mean that it would be dropped just before getting to court and evolving into a lengthy theoretical and problematic argument devoid of any evidence of who did it – the confession or denunciation is worthless without a signature – and their need to prove culpability beyond doubt to gain a conviction may well be viewed as a waste of time. And there is always the chance that they will !!!! it up anyway without needing your input. But you would have to be prepared for court and that is the lever applied to most motorists, as they don’t want to be inconvenienced and just quit rather than risk having to attend court.