Parking charge notice issued - can I appeal?

Guys_Dad

OK, hatters. When you have absorbed the Newbies thread and recommendations, please come back here and tell us what you intend to do so we can see you are on the right track.

Can you give us some dates for the non-council charge.

Was it a windscreen ticket?

Have you had a NtK?

Have you appealed yet?

Are you able to take any photos of the entrance [arking signs or if they are none, of the entrance itself?

Yes, we can help you get off but we need a clued up person on the other end of the advice. Just read a few threads ro see the sort of two-way process we need.

hatters14

Hello, I have now been able to look at the Newbies thread and I am going to appeal on the grounds of lack of signage and also incorrect location. He has stated that I was parked on the road but my vehicle was in a parking bay. He also has stated the incorrect colour.

The ticket was placed on my windscreen

I am not sure what a NtK is. The car is registered in Hubbie's name not mine but I was the driver

I will take some photos of the the road where he has has stated I was parked, where I was parked and the location of the signage .

Do let me know if you think there is anything else.....

Thanks so much for help and advice to date.....

Fruitcake

If you don't know what an NTK is you need to go back and read the Newbies thread again. You will get lots of help and advice on here but you need to do the legwork yourself and read up on the process and acronyms, all explained in the Newbies thread.


Filter out the parts that are relevant to you and concentrate on them. For example, you are still in the early stages so you don't need to read up on court cases or debt collectors unless you get an LBCC or letter from a debt collector company at a later date.


However, if you follow the advice on this site you will win. MSE has a 100% success rate at beating these fake speculative parking charges where people followed the advice.


Use the template letter in the Newbies thread for your first appeal. This WILL be rejected, but you get a silver bullet called a POPLA code. You use this in your second appeal and WIN.


Remember, Do Not Pay, Do Not Ignore, Do Not reveal who was driving no matter what. Always use wording like, "the driver did this," not, "I did this." Also, mitigation won't work, and the colour of the car is irrelevant. You must appeal on legal points only, and this is all explained in the Newbies thread.


When you have prepared your first appeal using the template letter, post it here for checking by the experts first. Make sure you can't be identified as the parking companies trawl this website. So, redact the PCN number and anything else about you or the car when you post things here. In addition, scan the PCN and post it here as well. You can't post links yet as you are a newbie, so upload it to Tinypic or Photobucket or similar and type the link on here but with the http/ bit removed. One of the regulars will then be able to add the missing bit to make the link work. The same applies to the photographs you plan to take.

Guys_Dad

hatters14 wrote: »

Hello, I have now been able to look at the Newbies thread and I am going to appeal on the grounds of lack of signage and also incorrect location. He has stated that I was parked on the road but my vehicle was in a parking bay. He also has stated the incorrect colour.

The ticket was placed on my windscreen

I am not sure what a NtK is. The car is registered in Hubbie's name not mine but I was the driver

I will take some photos of the the road where he has has stated I was parked, where I was parked and the location of the signage .

Do let me know if you think there is anything else.....

Thanks so much for help and advice to date.....

You have NOT read the Newbies sticky or you would not ask that question !!!!:(:( We need you to be able to understand our advice, so read the glossary

Your car colour is irrelevant by the way.

hatters14

I have gone back to NEWBIES thread and in addition I have tried to search for other experiences with the same company but have not found any. I have concluded that they are a small company and therefore will be appealing .

I have taken some photographs and have completed my letter as follows:


Dear P


PCN number xxxxxxx

I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. There was only one sign and one further defaced sign in the entire car park which was not visible unless walked through the entire parking area. Furthermore, both signs are located in a refuse area . There were no other signs either when entering or leaving the premises advising motorists of the Terms & Conditions. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Yours,


I feel the attendant put the incorrect location. Should i add thus at this stage?

Thank you

Dee140157

You can put it as point D if you explain it clearly , perhaps with photographic evidence. I don't understand what you mean when you say

On the Parking charge notice he has stated that I parked on St Andrew Road. I was not on St Andrew Road, I was parking in a bay off St Andrew Road

what do you mean by a bay off...? (For me a bay is a parking space) .

Coupon-mad

I feel the attendant put the incorrect location. Should i add thus at this stage?

As long as you DON'T say 'I was parking'!!

hatters14

Morning

I was issued with a ticket whilst parked in a parking bay that was located in the parking area of a business that was closed. There are no gates just about six marked bays.

There are no parking signs that have been there for years and the company have told me that is there as a deterrent. I know the company and I also know they not open on a Saturday. Right at the back of this parking area are now two signs. One has been defaced and the other is legible. However this is a refuse area and occasionally home to homeless people.

On my invoice it states location as being the actual road the the parking area is located rather than stating that the car was parking a bay for St Andrews House off St Andrews Road. My car was not parked on St Andrew's Road. Is this relevant?

Thank you for your advice on the letter

Dee140157

So you add point D
D. Non-complaint NTK. The offence never occurred. The driver was not parked on St Andrews Road. The driver was parked in a bay in a small private car park of St Andrews House that leads onto St Andrews Road. So the offence as stated did not occur.


The make sure you get some photos of the signage pdq in that little car park. Defaced and illegible signs will be good evidence for POPLA appeal of/when they reject this appeal.

Iceweasel

Can we be clear on one point please?

You said on 9th August you had just been issued with a PCN - on the windscreen.

That would lead me to believe that you have not received anything in the post yet - that would be an NTK.

So have you received anything other than the windscreen ticket?

If not - do nothing yet - wait for the NTK to arrive addressed to your husband.

Then he appeals as keeper - or he names you as driver - and then you can appeal if you want to do it that way.

Be aware that the colour of the car and the shop being shut are pretty irrelevant in your first appeal - you are going to win this on legal grounds rather than mitigating evidence of what happened on the day.

You need to be patient - there is no instant way to stop this rubbish - other than paying and you are not going to do that.