Ex DWP staff set up advice site to help those with sanctions

rogerblack

dippy3103 wrote: »

Let's face it, those that have abused the system have caused a lot of problems for the genuine & created a poor image which is used by benefit bashers as justification.

This is broadly - a lie fed by selectively distorted statistics.
The fact you can read about a prosecution due to benefit fraud every week or two does not mean the amount of fraud is high when there are millions claiming, and tens a year reported on. But it can seem high to those who just casually read the headlines.

DWP research on fraud on DLA, ESA and IB all reveal very low levels of fraud, comparable with awards due to staff error.

The media are happy to run with ministers briefing "the number of people claiming DLA has gone up, we have to save money" - with the implication that a large number of these claims are fraudulent.

Of course the number claiming will increase if you have more people surviving serious illnesses due to better health care, and if you introduce a benefit that only people of working age can claim, and allow them to continue claiming after 65.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221954/More-half-people-claiming-incapacity-benefit-fit-work.html is another example.

It neglects the fact that the 'found fit for some work' group in many cases may not (due to having long awards) ever be required to do work related activity.

Simply as it is recognised by the DWP that some people in practice have long-term health conditions.

It neglects the fact that a _large_ percentage of those found fit for work - on appeal are in fact found to have been incorrectly assessed, as with those found 'fit for some work'.

BillJones

rogerblack wrote: »

This is broadly - a lie fed by selectively distorted statistics.
The fact you can read about a prosecution due to benefit fraud.

You are either being dishonest here, or are confused, and I'm not sure which is better. Abusing the system does not mean fraud, necessarily, so you cannot conflate the two. You also absolutely cannot take the measured fraud numbers as evidence for the totality of fraud as, of course, it is not all detected.

Abuse, though, includes the many posts we see on this site, where people will think of any excuse under the sun to not take a job, where they will lie to avoid genuine sanctions, and where they will simply choose to take benefits when they could work instead. It involves people living apart who are couples, and so on.

dippy3103

It was actual abuse of the system that I was referring to as opposed to actual fraud. The two are very different

dookar

Morglin wrote: »

Three ex DWP staff have set up a free advice site, to assist those who have been sanctioned, or have been threatened with them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/former-dwp-staff-go-rogue-to-help-benefit-claimants-9645291.html


The site itself:

http://jobseekersanctionadvice.com/

Haven't got a clue how good or bad it is, but all enquiries are dealt with by email, so no personal details have to be given out, and as it is free, might be worth a look. The Independent and Rightsnet do seem to have checked it is genuine.

Lin

a quick look at their website suggests they're not as expert as they would hope us to believe.

Good luck to them though, hope it works out

FBaby

Spending DLA on anything that has nothing to do with one's disability is not fraud, but in my view, it is cheating the system as it is not spent on what it is intended for.

rogerblack

dippy3103 wrote: »

It was actual abuse of the system that I was referring to as opposed to actual fraud. The two are very different

Fraud is - in the DWPs view - misrepresenting your condition so as to gain an award you are not due to.
You may be ill - however misrepresenting that illness to be worse than it is is actually fraud - and is in the most severe cases actually prosecuted, in addition to reclaiming all of the money paid.

rogerblack

BillJones wrote: »

You are either being dishonest here, or are confused, and I'm not sure which is better. Abusing the system does not mean fraud, necessarily, so you cannot conflate the two. You also absolutely cannot take the measured fraud numbers as evidence for the totality of fraud as, of course, it is not all detected.

Abuse, though, includes the many posts we see on this site, where people will think of any excuse under the sun to not take a job, where they will lie to avoid genuine sanctions, and where they will simply choose to take benefits when they could work instead. It involves people living apart who are couples, and so on.

Far, far, far, far more is lost to the exchequer due to people paying accountants to minimise their tax/inheritance tax... bills than is lost due to people doing exactly the same thing with the benefit system.

The fraud numbers are _NOT_ 'how many frauds are detected' / 'how many claimants'.

They are the result of detailed investigations of particular claimants, selected at random.
This is what many of the the quite frequent posts 'I've been contacted saying that I'm being visited to see I am claiming all I should' visits are about.
They actually check individual cases - and indeed if you're entitled to more may help you with those claims.
If you're not - and it's at a level which is clearly not just 'error' (that is seperately reported) - and the amount has been over 2K - you may well be prosecuted for fraud.

dippy3103

rogerblack wrote: »

Fraud is - in the DWPs view - misrepresenting your condition so as to gain an award you are not due to.
You may be ill - however misrepresenting that illness to be worse than it is is actually fraud - and is in the most severe cases actually prosecuted, in addition to reclaiming all of the money paid.

I am a fraud investigator. I'm not talking about fraud (as in fraud where all the points to prove are there).

I mean abuse of the system as in not using it as the safety net it is, but rather as a lifestyle choice. The "job seeker" avoiding work like a cat avoids getting wet, those kind of people. The people that have child after child because they can afford it as their allowances go up. They are a burden on the tax payer.

Meanwhile the truly vulnerable that are a soft target lose valuable help hand over fist because the welfare state has become such a huge amount. The money should be going to those that can not work, or are temporarily out of work through no fault of their own and not the bone idle that think it's their god given right to be supported by the rest of society.


Rant over

Viberduo

applecharlotte wrote: »

The information on this website is quite out of date already.

The process for claiming hardship has changed. Job seekers agreement are rarely used these days, most offices have switched to claimant commitments.

And despite what the website would lead you to believe nobody is trying to catch job seekers out. If you genuinely are doing everything that you can to look for work you won't have a problem with the jobcentre, and you might even get a job!

But for those that don't want a job, then follow their advice and put all your efforts into obstructing the jobcentre rather than looking for work

Bullcrap, a lot of the time JC are useless and whilst they are not directly there to catch you out they treat you like just a number so if you do something wrong even if by error they will sanction you, I always remember even 10 years ago when on New Deal being given about 18 forms to fill in(they pestered you to say yes to forms and if you said no said "oh you may be sanctioned") they rushed them to me as the advisor was about 20 minutes behind schedule and wanted to go home so I had 10 minutes before closing, I started filling in some forms and was told people had to leave before it closed.

Next morning noticed a form was due in the same day as I got it so I rushed it and handed it in, at my next appointment a few days later I was HONEST that it was handed in a day late due to it being given to me minutes before JC closed and advisor wrote a form and told me to put down my reasons for not handing it in on time, I was again HONEST and the JC decided I had no good reason for not handing it in and stopped my money for 6 MONTHS!!! Considering at the time I was living in a grotty bedsit and already living off stuff like beans on toast as was that poor I had to get weekly crisis loans to just pay the bills

Another time I broke my toe as was groggy in morning 2 hours before I had an advisor interview so rang to rearrange appointment and was told advisor was going on a weeks holiday and they refused to let me see anyone else, I had my money stopped for not signing on for a week and lost the appeal, another time was the most severe in that I moved house asked before I left to transfer claim was told I had to go to new one and make a new claim, new one told me I had to sign on (300 miles away!) at old place so lost money, I did appeal and also rang almost every day for a month and eventually DID win but I was then told I failed to attend 2 sign on appointments at new JC so lost the same money I regained at appeal!

Another time they stopped my money a few days before christmas claiming my 5 hour a week study had 40 hours home study therefore my course was 45 hours and full time so stopped my money and I failed that appeal because they twisted my statement to say I refused to leave course if I got a job(I said as I lived in countryside and had 4 buses a day if I was given a call for a interview I could not come straight down unless it was made around the travel)

They also with a friend who in his entire adult life and so hard working he did full time work whilst at college as he didnt get a grant, he moved back to his parents and signed on by post for a few months but hated being unemployed so slept on my floor and got a job 1 day after moving in with me but was fired for being too slow had 2 P45's go missing from JC and told to our face "if we have not got it you have not handed it in" so had had only £20 a week to live off and had his HB stopped as they thought he was working, his advisor was rude to his face and told him he was lazy and making excuses and refused to believe he wasnt working and also claimed that his 5-20 jobs he applied for a week was fake and she kept saying she will sanction him, I went with him for support once and asked for the manager and the manager came across and was rude to me saying I had no right to be with my friend, that we were both LYING about the advisor(despite her getting various complaints I found out about) that my friend was lazy despite her not even knowing who my friend was.

I can go on and on about people I know who have problems, I know a recent university graduate who worked 3 part time jobs and did full time uni who lost all 3 jobs(partly as were being used by employers) she has a honours degree where she was getting A's even in dissertation and her local JC referred her to Ingeus and made her do basic skills courses in things like computers! And courses in how to fill out application forms and also the local Ingeus is like 20 miles away and there is no buses so most of her JSA goes on travel as despite them meant to be paying her travel they claim she is too close to get it!

dekaspace

dippy3103 wrote: »

I am a fraud investigator. I'm not talking about fraud (as in fraud where all the points to prove are there).

I mean abuse of the system as in not using it as the safety net it is, but rather as a lifestyle choice. The "job seeker" avoiding work like a cat avoids getting wet, those kind of people. The people that have child after child because they can afford it as their allowances go up. They are a burden on the tax payer.

Meanwhile the truly vulnerable that are a soft target lose valuable help hand over fist because the welfare state has become such a huge amount. The money should be going to those that can not work, or are temporarily out of work through no fault of their own and not the bone idle that think it's their god given right to be supported by the rest of society.


Rant over

Can you explain something to me, a few years ago I was going through severe depression i.e not leaving house for up to 10 days at a time, I got the LHA run on mixed up so opened a new claim at a different council and area(only 20 miles away) but shared with a student who was a slob and spent most of his free time video gaming in living room and stealing my food and shouting at me so after a week of living there I went home to get stuff and just never really came back apart from now and again to move stuff up.

He made my depression worse so I closed claim with new council and a year later got a letter claiming I did fraud, so I turned up for it and they went to the wrong building i.e they went to the main council building not the housing benefit office as they put on letter and were rude to me when I said I had been waiting a hour for them and they didnt turn up and I had a doctors visit planned(as I have health problems) and they claimed I should of known a interview may of taken more than a hour.

When I got there I took my own recording device and they refused to let me use it, and were rude to me and demanded I sign this form to agree to not have a 2nd person there(which made me almost faint from the stress) and to agree I would not get anyone else involved in the future etc.

When the interview started the whole time he treated me like he was a police officer and I was a suspect and twisted everything I said i.e I put down did I inform the old council I moved(which I DID) and I said I did and he said I didnt and asked me to read out what was on the appilication form and I got nervous and heart racing so he pressurised me and basically told me it was a admission of guilt.

I tried explaining I am autistic and stressed and have severe depression but got nowhere and got so upset I refused to answer any more questions, and he seemed to be more talkative off record so to speak i.e I mentioned about me getting mixed up with the run on part(which I tried to explain during the interview but he kept talking over me) and he said I did it wrong.

He told me he did not believe me and that I wrongfully did it and he also said if I admitted guilt straight away they would of wiped the debt(this is off the record) but as I didn't admit guilt and tried explaining myself it meant I had to pay back whole amount at a high rate and pay a massive fine and excess payment fee.

Now if I was so poor I could barely put food on the table(and as he admitted he thought I did it for some extra cash) then how can I afford a massive repayment of about £20 a week