tips in restaurants - moral question

Goldiegirl

PenguinJim wrote: »

The idea of continuing to do something purely because it's "tradition" instead of stopping doing it because it's stupid, unfair, outdated is... interesting. The way you use "of course" twice, to imply that it's a given, suggests that it makes sense in some way. But it just... doesn't.

We could equally apply your post to women voting in the UK a hundred years ago. Of course they shouldn't expect a vote when there's a long cultural tradition of women not voting. Of course we should waste £1000s on an engagement ring based on an eighty-year-old "tradition". Of course female genital mutilation should continue where there's a long cultural tradition of it.

Or... we could think about the things we do, and do the right things, instead of being sheep.

As kaflinkle says, it's fairly well summed up in Reservoir Dogs! Not all Americans accept it.

I'm not sure how you can jump from tipping to female genital mutilation.

I was talking about a persons job

Please don't imply that my view relates to anything else, particularly an evil practice such as female genital mutilation.

mynameisdave

kaushal101 wrote: »

My wife doesn't believe in leaving tips. If we are holidaying some place new, she will say "why leave tips, we are not coming here again".

Yesterday she did the same. Food wasn't bad. Service was slow, but okay. The waiter was pleasant and nice. I felt we should have left something, What's the usual practice?

In our town, we go to a restaurant quite frequently. There too we don't always leave tips. which I don't like. If our bill is around £20, what should we be leaving behind?

I don't deny her point that we are in saving mode right now. Then I suggest going for take-away to avoid this dilemma. But she doesn't like that idea either.

View please?

Put your foot down and tell her to stop being such a tight a**e!

If you can afford to go to a restaurant quite frequently and spend £20 a time you can afford to leave another £2 whether you are in savings mode or not.

waiting staff get paid rubbish money to work rubbish hours for customers who often under appreciate them.

10% tip is nothing

JReacher1

mynameisdave wrote: »

Put your foot down and tell her to stop being such a tight a**e!

If you can afford to go to a restaurant quite frequently and spend £20 a time you can afford to leave another £2 whether you are in savings mode or not.

waiting staff get paid rubbish money to work rubbish hours for customers who often under appreciate them.

10% tip is nothing

I've never sure about this argument. Nobody forces them to be waiting staff. They get at least minimum wage (like many other people) so I don't see why they should get extra cash.

It's a bit harsh but if they want a better job they should have got a better level of education. There's no point whinging about tips. Many people survive on minimum wage but one section of society believes they are better and deserve tips. It's ridiculous.

pollypenny

JReacher1 wrote: »

I've never sure about this argument. Nobody forces them to be waiting staff. They get at least minimum wage (like many other people) so I don't see why they should get extra cash.

It's a bit harsh but if they want a better job they should have got a better level of education. There's no point whinging about tips. Many people survive on minimum wage but one section of society believes they are better and deserve tips. It's ridiculous.

That's harsh. We do need workers at all levels. It's arrogant and simplistic to say that 'they should have got a better level of education'. I believe in respect for anyone doing a good job,,whether a doctor or a bin man. Both a essential to a functioning society.

Maybe restaurants are not needed. We can cook for ourselves, but while we use them, respect the workers.

PenguinJim

Goldiegirl wrote: »

I'm not sure how you can jump from tipping to female genital mutilation.

I was talking about a persons job

They're both cultural traditions.

OK, let's bring it home to the UK, to people working in the UK, to cultural traditions in the UK and how they relate to how people are paid. Do you agree with the UK's long-standing cultural tradition of paying men higher salaries than women for the same job?

That seems like an extremely similar situation to me - throwing extra money at an arbitrary group of people, be they people with penises or restaurant servers who work at non-fast-food restaurants.

That "non-fast-food" restaurant distinction also seems arbitrary to me - why don't McDonalds and Wendy's staff get tips? The more the tipping concept is analysed, the more it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, in my extremely humble opinion. For good service, tip everyone - doctors, nurses, refuse disposal workers, politicians, teachers, crossing guards, life guards, accountants, HR staff, cleaners, QC inspection workers, bouncers, supermarket till staff, etc - or tip no-one. Anything in-between is just... well, arbitrary. :think:

Money-Saving-King

pollypenny wrote: »

That's harsh. We do need workers at all levels. It's arrogant and simplistic to say that 'they should have got a better level of education'.

Do you tip the cashiers in shops 10/15% then?

ThumbRemote

mynameisdave wrote: »

Put your foot down and tell her to stop being such a tight a**e!

If you can afford to go to a restaurant quite frequently and spend £20 a time you can afford to leave another £2 whether you are in savings mode or not.

waiting staff get paid rubbish money to work rubbish hours for customers who often under appreciate them.

10% tip is nothing

So lets clarify.

People entitled to tips:
Waiting staff

People not entitled to tips, even though they get paid the same rubbish money to work the same rubbish hours for customers who often under appreciate them:
Supermarket checkout staff
Care home workers
Cleaners
Nursery workers
Fast food restaurant staff
Youth workers
Warehouse staff
Security guards
Farm hands
etc.

Why is one given special treatment?

monkeybrand

Personally I think if you can afford to eat in a restaurant, you can afford to leave a small tip.
Its not relevant as to whether or not you are going back - waiting staff work hard for often minimum wage, and it really doesnt hurt to leave a couple of quid to show your appreciation.
We usually go for 10% of the bill - and always in cash, so that the money goes to the waitress, not the company, and they dont get taxed on it

monkeybrand

JReacher1 wrote: »

I've never sure about this argument. Nobody forces them to be waiting staff. They get at least minimum wage (like many other people) so I don't see why they should get extra cash.

It's a bit harsh but if they want a better job they should have got a better level of education. There's no point whinging about tips. Many people survive on minimum wage but one section of society believes they are better and deserve tips. It's ridiculous.

That's unbelievable ! I say all power to them for working instead of sitting on their ar*es claiming benefit ! I think its dreadful to suggest that they should have got a better education.

My son, for one, left school with very few qualifications, not due to his ability, but to unfortunate circumstances around the time - bereavement and consequent long distance house moves being just a couple of them. He went into the unskilled market, and has been working ever since - long hours, gutty jobs, for little pay, but at least he is working.

I think its worrying that the suggestion that you should leave someone a couple of quid for service well done should lead to an attack on people's education and ability levels.:mad:

PenguinJim

monkeybrand wrote: »

Personally I think if you can afford to eat in a restaurant, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip the petrol station attendant? If you can afford to run a car, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip your mechanic? If you can afford to have your car serviced and repaired, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip your life assurance broker? If you can afford life assurance, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip the serving staff when buying a coffee? If you can afford to buy a coffee rather than make it yourself, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip your hairdresser? If you can afford to have your hair cut by a professional, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip your bin men? If you can afford your council tax, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip restaurant staff? If you can afford to eat in a restaurant, you can afford to leave a small tip.

How much do you tip your supermarket staff? If you can afford to buy your groceries using your own money rather than food stamps, you can afford to leave a small tip.

I just don't understand why it's "traditional" to be incredibly unfair and only tip two or three professions out of hundreds, seemingly chosen at random. If the tradition did not exist, and you tried starting this tradition, you'd be laughed at - unless you tipped everyone, perhaps.

Here's a paricularly crazy one: tipping a self-employed black cab driver, but not a bus driver. o_O Well, it's about time those rich bus drivers learned to work harder for their money..?