Buying a house with 'illegal' double glazing?

Ivana_Tinkle

If you're really worried about the windows, google the building regs for replacement windows and check for yourself whether they're up to standard. It's really not rocket science.

With the exception of the (cheaply and easily fixed) safety glass issue, it would be very difficult for anyone to prove that replacement windows were in breach of building regs anyway, since the regulations are clear that, as replacements, they don't need to meet the same standards for escape windows and ventilation as windows in a new-build, they just have to not be worse than the windows they replace. (ie if the old window didn't open far enough to be an escape window, then the new one doesn't need to either, as long as the opening isn't smaller than it was before). Unless anyone has detailed photos of the pre-2006 windows to compare, it can't ever be a problem.

silvercar

Ivana_Tinkle wrote: »

If you're really worried about the windows, google the building regs for replacement windows and check for yourself whether they're up to standard. It's really not rocket science.

With the exception of the (cheaply and easily fixed) safety glass issue, it would be very difficult for anyone to prove that replacement windows were in breach of building regs anyway, since the regulations are clear that, as replacements, they don't need to meet the same standards for escape windows and ventilation as windows in a new-build, they just have to not be worse than the windows they replace. (ie if the old window didn't open far enough to be an escape window, then the new one doesn't need to either, as long as the opening isn't smaller than it was before). Unless anyone has detailed photos of the pre-2006 windows to compare, it can't ever be a problem.

Which doesn't really help in case of needing to escape.

My bedroom window has a FENSA certificate on the grounds of the opening being wider than 2006 window, though wouldn't meet current regulations. We were accepting of this, given that none of us are excessively rotund. However, we read up on the rules and understood the risks.

phill99

Browntoa wrote: »

well it is an issue if a conservation area and not "in keeping" as you will have to reinstate

e

Sorry but you are very wrong. Reinstatement is nothing to do with building regs. Reinstatement would only ever be as a result if enforcement by the planning department. Enforcement action can only be taken within 4 years of the breach. As this was in 2006, it is way out of time.

readytofly

phill99 wrote: »

Sorry but you are very wrong. Reinstatement is nothing to do with building regs. Reinstatement would only ever be as a result if enforcement by the planning department. Enforcement action can only be taken within 4 years of the breach. As this was in 2006, it is way out of time.

Thanks I've looked into this on planning portal - there are a few options for planning but to my unknowing eye it looks like windows come under 'other' and the time limit may be ten years? Also enforcement of section 35 under building regulations (£5000 fine plus £50 a day post work taken) cannot be enforced after 12 months, but the council can still apply for an injunction at any time (under section 36).

Worst case scenario for us i suppose the council will serve us notice and we may have to pay out £3,500 for new windows and doors (sob) best case scenario no one ever finds out about it and we live in ignorant bliss, and hope it won't cause repercussions when we sell! The other bit that is a concern is that the solicitor will refer this to our mortgage lender who may want to revalue the house, which might cause an issue.

With regards to altering the property and obtaining planning permission, do you need to apply for permission when updating the boiler and removing hot water tanks/boiler tanks? Might be a stupid question but I just don't know!

Mattygroves2

pleasedelete wrote: »

Highly unlikley. Even in a conservation area in a national park windows were somewhat flexible. Grade 1 or 2 listed yes- anything else no.

Not in the conservation area I live in. We are supposed to have wooden replacements and no double glazed units. I suspect it depends on how awkward each planning department is.

Hasn't stopped us replacing old ones with wooden double glazed units though (with FENSA certificates) - we are just hoping the planners don't notice !

Mattygroves2

readytofly wrote: »

The other bit that is a concern is that the solicitor will refer this to our mortgage lender who may want to revalue the house, which might cause an issue.

With regards to altering the property and obtaining planning permission, do you need to apply for permission when updating the boiler and removing hot water tanks/boiler tanks? Might be a stupid question but I just don't know!

I doubt the windows are going to cause a valuation problem unless there are alot of them.

You don't need planning permission for replacing boilers or tanks. If you are buying a listed building then it would be wise to talk to them but otherwise no.

TBagpuss

replacing a boiler does not need planning permission but does require building regs certification. If you have a reputable fitter they will normally be able to self certify -they will notify building regs and you will get a certificate through the post - check with the engineer when you are getting quotes that they will be able to do this.

Regarding Phill99's comments about solicitors - solicitors on a house purchase are (in most cases) working for the mortgage lender as well as for you, and have an obligation to notify them of anything which the lender might consider is relevant - they also have to ensure that you, as their client, are aware of any issues which might affect the house. Most solicitors (as opposoed to conveyancing factories) do not receive an commission or payment if you buy indemnity insurance, and any that do are required to disclose the commission to you. Of coruse there are bad / greedy solicitors as there are bad / greedy people in every other profession, but for things such as this, the solicitor is simply doing the job you are paying them for,. Once you have the information, you get to make an informed decision as to how you proceed.

planning_officer

pleasedelete wrote: »

Highly unlikley. Even in a conservation area in a national park windows were somewhat flexible. Grade 1 or 2 listed yes- anything else no.

Bit generalistic - it depends on the character and appearance of the conservation area. If distinctive windows, or sash windows for example, are part of the character of the conservation area, then changing them is likely to be a problem. That can occur anywhere, in any conservation area. Mind you, that's only if changing the windows is deemed to be development requiring planning permission (which it may not always be).

Edit: just noticed in this case that the windows were changed in 2006 - so you're quite right, four years has passed and the Local Planning Authority cannot enforce against them under the planning legislation.

readytofly wrote: »

Thanks I've looked into this on planning portal - there are a few options for planning but to my unknowing eye it looks like windows come under 'other' and the time limit may be ten years?

No. It's not ten years; it's four. All operational development (i.e. building works) becomes lawful after four years, providing the use of the land is lawful. Any unlawful change of use of land or buildings becomes lawful after ten years (apart from the change of use of a building to residential, which is also four). If something is in breach of a condition attached to a planning permission, then it takes ten years of continuous breach before that becomes unenforceable too.

readytofly wrote: »

With regards to altering the property and obtaining planning permission, do you need to apply for permission when updating the boiler and removing hot water tanks/boiler tanks? Might be a stupid question but I just don't know!

As others have said, no - you don't need planning permission for internal works, including changing a boiler. Building Regs is entirely different though.

jaybeetoo

When my father died and I sold his house, I found he hadn't got permission for his windows. It wasn't a big deal - I retrospectively applied for permission from the Trust where his house was. It came through quickly and didn't cost much (£60???).

Get the sellers to sort it out.

Argghhh

you can get the council to certify your windows - The main thing is that they would like to know what was there prioer - they came to my house before and after the new windows and as long as i proved the new glass was K or low emmissivety coated, and there was at least 1 fire escape - where there wasnt one before they were quite happy. Solicitors basically talk !!!!! and copy and paste crap in all the time demanding indemnity insurance for this n that just so they can bump their fees up