Buying a house with 'illegal' double glazing?

societys_child

Oh dear, I must have installed hundreds of "illegal" windows over the years, never had a problem, and never have I paid FENSA to allow me to it.

*I know some registered FENSA fitters and although they are welcome to come round and have a drink, wouldn't allow 'em anywhere near with a screwdriver in their hands:eek:
(I do also know some who are excellent at their job) :cool:

readytofly

My solicitor has made this sound really scary and such an issue to walk away from it. I'm not sure about enviromental area but our searches say that Waltham Abbey is not in the green belt. Just to be clear our seller had the windows installed without the proper buildings approval required by contract, not that he used an installer without FENSA.

phill99

The more I hear things like this, the more I think solicitors are a bunch of cucumber washers.

Harrysdad is correct. They are just scaremongering.

Firstly there is no such thing as an illegal window. There isn't a special Window Squad at your local nick who whizz round with blue lights flashing every time some renews a patio door.

In reality, what can go wrong with a bloody window? It either lets light in or it doesn't. It either opens or it doesn't. Nobody has been killed, injured or even reprimanded by a window that hasn't got a certificate attached to it.

All windows are built to building regulation standard by default now. If you don't have a building control cert or a Fensa cert for a window, what can happen? Absolutely nothing. Because it is not against the law to install one without a certificate. And building control can do nothing about it as its not a criminal matter. They can't make you take the windows out.

The only people that get a slight stirring in their loins about damn fensa certs are solicitors. And why? Because they can offer you a nice little indemnity policy on which they get a kick back. More scaremongering = more revenue.

And what happens if the indemnity is put in place? Nothing. It only covers the cost of challenging an enforcement action by building control. And are they likely to enforce? No. Because its not illegal to out windows in without a certificate.

Its all codswallop perpetrated by a group of greedy scaremongering solicitors.

readytofly

Thank you everyone! I'm feeling much more reassured. They're not wrong when they say house buying is one of the most stressful things you will do! Phill99 I love your answer, it actually explains a lot more to me than what I received from solicitor! So far my emails have given me information I don't know what to do with, but no real answers or actions to take. So thank you!

silvercar

In reality, what can go wrong with a bloody window? It either lets light in or it doesn't. It either opens or it doesn't. Nobody has been killed, injured or even reprimanded by a window that hasn't got a certificate attached to it.

Whereas I agree with your sentiment, that putting a certificate on a window does not change the window, there are some important things that "go wrong".

1. safety glass not used where it should be eg in windows at very low levels.
2. upvc is not as strong as wood and some windows need supports within the frame.
3. openings not conforming to standard making escape in event of fire a danger.

googler

readytofly wrote: »

What happens should we need to replace of repair one of the windows or doors? We don't know who fitted the windows.

You don't need to know who fitted them in order to replace them. Any installer will just rip them out anyway.

I_have_spoken

As with all these 'certificates' what was acceptable even last year is now deemed 'not to standard' because FENSA/Gas Safe/Uncle Tom Cobbly and All have made-up more rules to boost profits in the trade.

I bought a house in 2011 with the original aluminium framed DG windows from late 1980s. Replaced the handles as they were rather careworn, redid the caulking around the frames which had hardened and was loose and job's a good 'un.

Johnandabby

silvercar wrote: »

Whereas I agree with your sentiment, that putting a certificate on a window does not change the window, there are some important things that "go wrong".

1. safety glass not used where it should be eg in windows at very low levels.
2. upvc is not as strong as wood and some windows need supports within the frame.
3. openings not conforming to standard making escape in event of fire a danger.

But these things can also go wrong with FENSA certified installations - it's all about the quality of the product and installer, not a certificate, and a lot of cowboys are certified as only a small proportion ever get inspected.


After dealing with a number of properties myself I would be amazed if more than half of installations have the 'correct' paperwork....


And for the points raised:
1. Then replace the glass.
2. Then replace the window if it has problems.
3. Would be the case for most houses in the UK - if you're really concerned then replace a couple of windows to provide secondary means of escape.


The real point is these are not valid reasons to not buy a house.

Johnandabby

readytofly wrote: »

Hi all
and he says he used the britsh gas annual service

This is probably the biggest bit to be worried about! Our vendors used the BG service, and we had to replace a completely knackered boiler within 4 months of moving in, even though BG had declared it in perfect condition (after installing it incorrectly 3 years earlier) - apparently they couldn't see multiple holes in the heat exchanger, and the casing filling up with water....


Personally I wouldn't trust any paperwork provided by the vendor, and would now get my trusted plumber and electrician to do any inspections prior to exchange.

pleasedelete

Browntoa wrote: »

well it is an issue if a conservation area and not "in keeping" as you will have to reinstate

british gas annual service has a sign off sheet by the engineer that they should be able to produce

Highly unlikley. Even in a conservation area in a national park windows were somewhat flexible. Grade 1 or 2 listed yes- anything else no.