Holidays/Holiday pay advice?

getmore4less

falko89 wrote: »

My contract says clearly holidays must be taken before the end of the year and can not be carried over, holidays not taken are lost and no cash alternative is available. So what way does that work.

You need to manage the employers expectations, tell them you will be taking your statutory holiday as the company policy is use or loose.

If they do not allow you to take or allocate the holidays and it comes to the end of the year* you will use them up then.


* this assumes the holiday year is Jan-Dec which conveniently will be Xmas.

falko89

getmore4less wrote: »

You need to manage the employers expectations, tell them you will be taking your statutory holiday as the company policy is use or loose.

If they do not allow you to take or allocate the holidays and it comes to the end of the year* you will use them up then.


* this assumes the holiday year is Jan-Dec which conveniently will be Xmas.

Ok I have just hoaked out my contract, the exact wording of this is as follows.

The holiday year runs from 1st Jan - 31st Dec. You are entitled to 28 days holidays per year including Bank Holidays.

LIST OF BANK HOLIDAYS

Lists 8

You will be expected to take your holidays in accordance with the company. Any other holidays you require must be applied for 2 months in advance.

Holidays may not be carried over into the next holiday year. Unused holidays will be forfeited without compensation.

So it says we must take holidays when they say we can which they have none set apart from bank holidays and they must be taken before 31st December.

By my counting, accruing 2.3 days per month I will have 13.8 days in December minus 1 day for August bank holiday leaving me 12.8 days of have I worked that out wrong?

Lioness_Twinkletoes

falko89 wrote: »

I didn't want to say that but it's looking like I might have to get the old CV out again. If I look at my last 3 jobs, the first never paid half the time and as I mentioned ended up in court action by myself. The next employer treated folk like scum of the earth, it took me a long time to escape from their and now this employer while fantastic in every other way messes about with holidays. Do any decent genuine employers exists or am I expecting to much?

I actually think the problem lies with you - not your employers.

falko89

Lioness_Twinkletoes wrote: »

I actually think the problem lies with you - not your employers.

Why so? I'm interested

the_donchichio

falko89 wrote: »

I didn't want to say that but it's looking like I might have to get the old CV out again. If I look at my last 3 jobs, the first never paid half the time and as I mentioned ended up in court action by myself. The next employer treated folk like scum of the earth, it took me a long time to escape from their and now this employer while fantastic in every other way messes about with holidays. Do any decent genuine employers exists or am I expecting to much?

There are genuine decent employers but there is no such thing as a perfect employer, which to me is what you are in search of...there is always some sort of compromise involved in any relationship be it work, life etc

One of my earlier jobs I literally used to get paid for doing nothing(was on standby in a warehouse awaiting orders) & I could go upto two hours sitting on old t.v. Boxes talking to my colleague or reading a book and if my manager walked past, he would say try to look busy and walk off knowing too well there was little if anything to do..the longest two hours if my life

FBaby

Ultimately, it sounds like they are breaching the terms of the contract, so on that basis, you can rightly challenge it.

The problem you face is that no-one else has done so. You therefore risk being considered a trouble maker and as you are new with few protection, they could either make life at work difficult or get rid of you with no reason.

In your shoes, I would want to raise it, but more on an inquisitive basis than challenging. After all, why is it that all over employees go along with it? I find that odd that a company would be so lucky to employ such a dedicated workforce where not one has challenged such poor practice that has gone on for some time it would seem.

falko89

FBaby wrote: »

Ultimately, it sounds like they are breaching the terms of the contract, so on that basis, you can rightly challenge it.

The problem you face is that no-one else has done so. You therefore risk being considered a trouble maker and as you are new with few protection, they could either make life at work difficult or get rid of you with no reason.

In your shoes, I would want to raise it, but more on an inquisitive basis than challenging. After all, why is it that all over employees go along with it? I find that odd that a company would be so lucky to employ such a dedicated workforce where not one has challenged such poor practice that has gone on for some time it would seem.

That I can answer. There are 6 employees. 3 have been there from the start, had no other job so don't know any different. The other 2 are part time students who again are in there first job. Then there is me who has been about.

FBaby

3 have been there from the start, had no other job so don't know any different.

mmmm, really? I don't think it take being a rocket science to realise that something is not right with that practice.

If however it trully is the case, then I would start with bringing it up with them, again in a very non challenging way, not all coming out on one day but as events unfold, so that maybe you can convince them to raise a group grievance. This way, they can't single you out and they would have to take it much more seriously than if it is only one person complaining.

Another_not_new_user

OP, I am failing to see the bit where the employer told you that you cannot have any holidays. I see the bit where they told you that you could not have two weeks at Christmas. Where is the bit where you asked them how they would like you to take your holidays, or where you asked them for other dates than the two weeks you have been told you cannot have? You seem to have decided, based on the comments of a group of people that you claim haven't got a clue about their rights, that the employer will breach yours. Which they don't appear to have said. It's a two way thing. The employer must give the opportunity to take leave - you must ask to take it. If you don't, the employer has discharged their obligations - they are not required to force you to take it or recompense you for it. You need them to fail to provide the opportunity to take it - otherwise it isn't actionable.


Not that I am entirely sure what "actionable" means in this situation. Are you planning on making a claim against your employer? Are you ready to lose your job over this? Because that is what it comes down to. If this is simply a case of you want someone else to enforce your rights or an easy way to get what you want, then that isn't going to happen. If you have decided that you need to move on because the employment isn't going to work out, then there is no point fighting over something - it doesn't matter that you may be "legally in the right" if the result is no job and that isn't a result you can live with.

falko89

Another_not_new_user wrote: »

OP, I am failing to see the bit where the employer told you that you cannot have any holidays. I see the bit where they told you that you could not have two weeks at Christmas. Where is the bit where you asked them how they would like you to take your holidays, or where you asked them for other dates than the two weeks you have been told you cannot have? You seem to have decided, based on the comments of a group of people that you claim haven't got a clue about their rights, that the employer will breach yours. Which they don't appear to have said. It's a two way thing. The employer must give the opportunity to take leave - you must ask to take it. If you don't, the employer has discharged their obligations - they are not required to force you to take it or recompense you for it. You need them to fail to provide the opportunity to take it - otherwise it isn't actionable.


Not that I am entirely sure what "actionable" means in this situation. Are you planning on making a claim against your employer? Are you ready to lose your job over this? Because that is what it comes down to. If this is simply a case of you want someone else to enforce your rights or an easy way to get what you want, then that isn't going to happen. If you have decided that you need to move on because the employment isn't going to work out, then there is no point fighting over something - it doesn't matter that you may be "legally in the right" if the result is no job and that isn't a result you can live with.

No I didn't ask. The contract says to be taken in accordance with the company ie when they say,

You can book them yes but as a colleague found out last week you won't get paid and he is to scared to challenge them.

I have a fight on my hands. I spoke to ACAS who told me to put all in writing because there is a good change I could get sacked for stiring the pot and at least I would have a paper trail which could be used to argue unfair dissmissal.

A colleague tells me holidays do carry on until the next year but even so that should be my choice no the firms in accordance with the work time directive.