Smart Parking PCN at Asda

monz87

Hi guys, I received a PCN from Smart Parking at Asda on 11/07/14.

I've been shopping there for years and can't remember the last time I paid for a permit. So this time after a £34.74 shop I came out and noticed a ticket on my windshield!

After reading these forums and other forums, I'm overwhelmed about the number of different cases and different advice.

The recommended thing to do is apparently wait for the notice to owner through the post, then to appeal against that using a pre written template acting as the owner but not the driver, if they reject the appeal (most probably will), then to appeal to POPLA.
Is that correct?

Also, is it wise to wait for the notice to owner before I appeal to Smart Parking? As this will pass the 14 day reduced period and then if I don't win at the end I will have to pay the full amount? Or am I wrong?

I did call Asda and the lady was KEEN that she couldn't cancel the ticket. Should I first email head office and tell them that I am a regular shopper and that I put a pound in and the machine ate it up, then I went into Asda and advised a member of staff about this who said it should be ok and if I get a ticket just tell the company what happened and show my receipt and it should be fine? Think they will buy that?

I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks guys

Dee140157

You wait for the Notice to keeper and appeal as registered keeper . Smart usually cancel at this stage but should you get a POPLA code, then appeal and you will win. You will not have to pay anything.

Also, did you speak to the manager at Asda because they can and do cancel tickets regularly. If not go in and Kick up a fuss in store in front of people if you wish. Complain to head office too. You are a customer and you are bing treated shabbily. So much for their aim to save you money! And since your advice was not to worry when the machine ate your money up, all the more reason.

Redx

also try the CEO too

not sure why you are confused

the NEWBIES sticky thread at the top of this forum has all the latest advice and everything you need to know so that no confusion can actually happen

follow the thread, follow the flowchart , complain to the landowner in the meantime (forcefully)

if smart or asda dont cancel, take it to popla after the NTK arrives if they still dont cancel after the template appeal and then let popla cancel it for you

how confusing is that ?

Umkomaas

Should I first email head office and tell them that I am a regular shopper and that I put a pound in and the machine ate it up, then I went into Asda and advised a member of staff about this who said it should be ok and if I get a ticket just tell the company what happened and show my receipt and it should be fine? Think they will buy that?

If this is what happened, then do it.

If it's just a pack of lies, then you'll get no support from anyone on here - we do things honestly and above board; why would anyone want to resort to the level of the people trying to impose unenforceable claims on them; they just become no better than them!

Coupon-mad

monz87 wrote: »

Hi guys, I received a PCN from Smart Parking at Asda on 11/07/14.

I've been shopping there for years and can't remember the last time I paid for a permit. So this time after a £34.74 shop I came out and noticed a ticket on my windshield!

After reading these forums and other forums, I'm overwhelmed about the number of different cases and different advice.

The recommended thing to do is apparently wait for the notice to owner through the post, then to appeal against that using a pre written template acting as the owner but not the driver, if they reject the appeal (most probably will), then to appeal to POPLA.
Is that correct?

Also, is it wise to wait for the notice to owner before I appeal to Smart Parking? As this will pass the 14 day reduced period and then if I don't win at the end I will have to pay the full amount? Or am I wrong?

I did call Asda and the lady was KEEN that she couldn't cancel the ticket. Should I first email head office and tell them that I am a regular shopper and that I put a pound in and the machine ate it up, then I went into Asda and advised a member of staff about this who said it should be ok and if I get a ticket just tell the company what happened and show my receipt and it should be fine? Think they will buy that?

Forget lying. Smacks of desperation and drags a motorist down to a PPC's lowest-of-the-low 'bottom-feeder' level - there's no need. This is ONLY Smart!

The only thing wrong in the part in bold, is that you've not read any specific Smart parking threads recently! The 'smartest' thing about Smart is that we've noticed they don't take 'our' cases to POPLA stage any more, they fold when they see that template and you can do it online as soon as you like. With Smart you don't even have to wait for the NTO because we know they will fold as long as you don't change the wording.

Search this parking forum for one word 'Smart' and you will see!

monz87

Ok fair enough, I wont tell a lie, just thought it may get cancelled quicker that's all.

So coupon-mad, you mentioned that I don't even have to wait for the notice through the post and should just submit the appeal as long I don't change the template, I will do it online and should I still keep it word for word, obviously filling in the blanks or would you suggest I put a couple of lines at the beginning about the driver having completed a shop with the shopping receipt. Or should I not bother with that and also not bother giving the receipt to them? Not even sure if I can attach scanned pdf's via the online appeal portal.

Also, just to be sure, this is the right template, right?

Dear {put here the company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not 'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Yours,



{the registered keeper's name}
ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT - NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE

Umkomaas

That's the one. Just press the Send button.

Dee140157

However we always suggest waiting for the notice to keeper as this is better later on for various reasons.

Umkomaas

Dee140157 wrote: »

However we always suggest waiting for the notice to keeper as this is better later on for various reasons.

Dee - from Coupon's post above:

With Smart you don't even have to wait for the NTO because we know they will fold as long as you don't change the wording.

Coupon-mad

Dee140157 wrote: »

However we always suggest waiting for the notice to keeper as this is better later on for various reasons.

We do normally - but with Smart Parking it's currently sooo easy to give them a virtual slap to make them cancel, there's probably nothing to be gained from waiting! We know Smart won't want forum-based appeal wording to go to POPLA - they are clearly playing a numbers game so their POPLA success looks better on paper, beating clueless victims only. This OP will have this cancelled within a fortnight or so!

Umkomaas

beating clueless victims only.

And there's so many of them around it really makes me wonder why any PPC actually takes on a forum-assisted initial appeal, and I wonder even more why they take the guaranteed loss of £27 to challenge a forum-assisted POPLA submission.

Maybe Smart are living up to their name? Doesn't say much for the rest of them.