7/8 year old girls, when they're good, they're very very good, but...

z.n

mehak_327 wrote: »

umm...so is corporal punishment not an option ? Used to work fine when we were kids and being horrible !

Depends on the quality of relationship you want to have with your child when they grow up really. And whether you feel it is ok to make your child either traumatised or desensitised to domestic violence. Personally I don't want to hit or be hit by anyone- I would much rather find alternative means of dispute resolution that don't permanently damage the child-parent bond.

That is not to say I have not (and OH hasn't) tried the odd smack when the children were younger-it was what we were both brought up with-but ultimately realised they were simply an effort by us to transfer our parental stress onto the child- and what does that achieve except a very stressed small person who can't trust his/her caregivers' emotional stability. What is it but bullying by another name. When older the children have once or twice each pushed me to lose control and slap after which I have duly apologised profusely and realised sometimes I need to walk away. Maybe it needs to happen once or twice so you and the child know you are separate people and have to be treated with respect even in extremis. The alternative scenario of smacking in controlled cold blood seems bizarre and frankly a bit scary-'this is hurting me more than it is hurting you!' territory-misguided at the least. Even worse if the person doing the hitting was not distressed!

I would at one time have agreed it never did me any harm. However, careful observation of the effect of one smack on my own small child made me rethink and realise the long-term impact it had on me-obvious really but just not even thought about, and so that was one parenting style very speedily disgarded.

mehak_327

z.n wrote: »

Depends on the quality of relationship you want to have with your child when they grow up really. And whether you feel it is ok to make your child either traumatised or desensitised to domestic violence. Personally I don't want to hit or be hit by anyone- I would much rather find alternative means of dispute resolution that don't permanently damage the child-parent bond.

That is not to say I have not (and OH hasn't) tried the odd smack when the children were younger-it was what we were both brought up with-but ultimately realised they were simply an effort by us to transfer our parental stress onto the child- and what does that achieve except a very stressed small person who can't trust his/her caregivers' emotional stability. What is it but bullying by another name. When older the children have once or twice each pushed me to lose control and slap after which I have duly apologised profusely and realised sometimes I need to walk away. Maybe it needs to happen once or twice so you and the child know you are separate people and have to be treated with respect even in extremis. The alternative scenario of smacking in controlled cold blood seems bizarre and frankly a bit scary-'this is hurting me more than it is hurting you!' territory-misguided at the least. Even worse if the person doing the hitting was not distressed!

I would at one time have agreed it never did me any harm. However, careful observation of the effect of one smack on my own small child made me rethink and realise the long-term impact it had on me-obvious really but just not even thought about, and so that was one parenting style very speedily disgarded.

Hmm..never did any long lasting damage to me or my brother. Still respect and are close to our parents.

In our group of friends and family - we've all at one point or another have smacked our child and continue to do so at times. The key being smacked and not hit them black and blue. It does seem to work for us. But I guess to each their own !

FBaby

Thanks z.n for bringing up the essence of cbt as indeed, I realise that unconsciously, that's what I've been doing. I worked in mental health for some time and always believed in the benefit of cbt. I never considered it for a child, but indeed, it is about teaching them to recognise mentally the triggers and then taking small steps after small steps to learn new behaviours to deal with the trigger.

I'm glad to hear that your son got over the crisis. I think my DS will do too, but I hope to help him learn to control that innate sense of anger which I suspect will always be part of him. He is a thinker and will go over it all when he is calm, he just needs to apply the same thinking when he can feel the heat coming up.

Curlywurli

You could actually be writing this about my daughter and it's her eighth birthday today! Feel better to know that it's not just my little girl.

Robisere

mehak_327 wrote: »

umm...so is corporal punishment not an option ? Used to work fine when we were kids and being horrible !

I had an abusive mother who once put me in a coma for 3 days when I was just 6 years old. My dad took me away to live with a loving Aunt and 4 smashing cousins for a couple of years. I was the youngest of 3 brothers, the others much older than myself and both married by my 5th birthday. Mum had some sort of treatment for a mental problem while I was away, whatever it was must have been serious because I learned that 2 of her brothers had been institutionalized for years.

When mum came back and I returned home, for the rest of her days I could feel no love whatsoever for her, although I loved my dad to bits and I still miss him, 26 years after their deaths I visit the grave and talk only to dad. I don't really care what anyone thinks about that.

Would you like to know what that did to me, mehak? I grew up violent, was convicted twice before joining the Army, had a very good trade and blew it by attacking an Officer and hospitalizing him. Eventually I had an accident causing a brain injury which totally changed my personality, or I do believe that I would not now be here, I would be dead or serving life.

If I see a child being hit, I cannot help myself, I have to stop the attacker, parent or not. I have never hit my own two and they have never hit my grandchildren. I followed my wonderful dad's method, never raised my voice but made the offending child understand that I was disappointed at bad behaviour. It's all about trust and respect, I made them realise that I would defend them against everyone and anyone, providing they told me the truth. Lie, and I would be very, very upset, more by the lie than whatever they had done. It took a lot of work, but I made them understand that giving one's word is the most important thing one can do.

Bitsy_Beans

vicker wrote: »

...when they're bad, they're horrid.

Don't know where to go with my lass.

Love love love her dearly. 95% of the time her behaviour is awesome. It's the 5% which is slowly turning into 6%, 7% which I'd appreciate some advice on.

She basically goes from 0-60mph in her temper. Fine one minute, next thing I know I ask her to pick up her clothes or wash her face - and she is yelling her head off at me, then will very quickly resort to throwing her toys, then trying to kick/hit me. A few times I have had to resort to holding her for 30 minutes for her to calm down.

When I ask her to do these things, the tone of voice/time of day/prior events can all be the same as the previous day when there was no issue at all and she happily got on with the request independently or with a little help.

When she is in, what I call the red mist, there is no reasoning with her and she doesn't care what she loses or misses out on. Positive behaviour charts don't work - she used to refuse stickers from her teacher in Reception/Year 1 as she doesn't like being praised very much. In the past her bedroom has been stripped back of all the fun stuff, toys, books as its been removed due to her choices, and she's got on with the punishment just fine and isn't bothered if it happens again.

The thing which is causing most grief at the moment is it's her birthday tomorrow - her vile behaviour has meant she is no longer having her sleepover. Which she is fine about (having been desperate for it for a fortnight leading up to today). We are very clear in that we say..."if you continue in this behaviour you will not be having...." she is counted down into the decision being made and given a choice of a or b all through. We keep as calm as we can manage.

The thing really concerning me through all this is that I was exactly like it as a child. My mum gave into it and my demands for an easy life, and as a result I could do anything I wanted when I wanted even though it was wholly inappropriate. This caused major issues in the early years of my marriage as OH and I worked through it and I had to learn how to relate to him as someone who loved me completely, but would not do what I wanted when I wanted.

My niece is 20 next month, and whilst my sister has tried to be consistent, my niece aged 7 started displaying typical behaviour like DD is now showing and it has never gone away. She still hits and lashes out at my sister when my sister doesn't do what my niece wants.

Anyone I speak to about it have never had such severe problems with their daughter as I describe to them. And the majority cannot believe I am describing the lovely girl they know - those who get a glimpse of her defiant side can't quite believe it, and the speed with which it appears.

So I've exhausted all my friends asking for tips - they have none besides reward charts/naughty step/smacks/bigging up the achievements/consistency and all the common things we've already worked our way through or rejected before trying as we disagreed they'd be helpful. We've tried teaching anger techniques, but as soon as she's in the red mist the cards/breathing techniques all go out of the window.

So opening it up for wider help please as OH and I are desperate and we're worn down by it all as the incidents have gone from once a month, to once a week to once every couple of days at the moment.

Sorry for the long post - just wanted to give a rounded idea of what we've tried in response to the behaviour she displays.

A friend directed me to your post as she said it reminded her of my son. Which it does. He can be like Jekyll and Hyde :eek: However he is on the autistic spectrum with likely pathological demand avoidance traits. He has a very high need for control.
Now I would never go so far as to suggest someone is on the spectrum or has PDA but my son has had awful temper tantrums in response to the word no (he's nearly 9) and sounds much like your daughter. Whilst it might seem he's a spoilt brat it's all centre around his need to be in control at times. And this need fluctuates depending on his mood.
What I have learned is to make my instructions as less demanding as possible using a particular phrase eg it's time to.......have a bath, tidy up, do your homework. Using this wording it de-personalises the instruction....it's not you deciding it's the clock IYSWIM.
Also I have lessened the number of commands. I give my son and try and ignore negative behaviour. Rather than saying No to him all the time and giving negative commands such as don't do x y and z I try and use more positive instruction eg please keep the bath water in the bath as opposed to don't splash in the bath.
It may be a fluke but last couple of weeks he's been significantly less stroppy and I am hoping it's because He's not hearing negative parenting as often.
Hope that helps and no matter how bad it gets don't give in or accept bad behaviour. When my son gets into his red mist we ignore and leave him to calm down, yes that means he sometimes trashes his room, last time he threw a chair but if he breaks his toys they do not get replaced and he knows that.

mehak_327

Robisere wrote: »

I had an abusive mother who once put me in a coma for 3 days when I was just 6 years old. My dad took me away to live with a loving Aunt and 4 smashing cousins for a couple of years. I was the youngest of 3 brothers, the others much older than myself and both married by my 5th birthday. Mum had some sort of treatment for a mental problem while I was away, whatever it was must have been serious because I learned that 2 of her brothers had been institutionalized for years.

When mum came back and I returned home, for the rest of her days I could feel no love whatsoever for her, although I loved my dad to bits and I still miss him, 26 years after their deaths I visit the grave and talk only to dad. I don't really care what anyone thinks about that.

Would you like to know what that did to me, mehak? I grew up violent, was convicted twice before joining the Army, had a very good trade and blew it by attacking an Officer and hospitalizing him. Eventually I had an accident causing a brain injury which totally changed my personality, or I do believe that I would not now be here, I would be dead or serving life.

If I see a child being hit, I cannot help myself, I have to stop the attacker, parent or not. I have never hit my own two and they have never hit my grandchildren. I followed my wonderful dad's method, never raised my voice but made the offending child understand that I was disappointed at bad behaviour. It's all about trust and respect, I made them realise that I would defend them against everyone and anyone, providing they told me the truth. Lie, and I would be very, very upset, more by the lie than whatever they had done. It took a lot of work, but I made them understand that giving one's word is the most important thing one can do.

There is a difference between smacking and smashing. My parents have smacked us but never smashed us. The same goes for my kids....smacking YES, smashing NO.