Galloway Smashes Scottish Separatists with Stellar Speech in the Spectator

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

Another example of how Scotland welcomes and absorbs incomers from England and elsewhere.

If his family had chosen to send him to school in Scotland AFTER Milliband closes the borders like he's suggesting, he would have stayed English I suppose.

the basic hatred and prejudice shows itself so easily

DaveTheMus

CLAPTON wrote: »

is there any evidence that the Scottish voters want to join EFTA rather than EU?

I haven't seen much relating to the EU or EFTA. I've read a few articles stating that Scotland will most likely be blocked by Spain so EFTA seems to be the plan B.

CLAPTON

DaveTheMus wrote: »

I haven't seen much relating to the EU or EFTA. I've read a few articles stating that Scotland will most likely be blocked by Spain so EFTA seems to be the plan B.

yes, in reality the details don't really matter.

the issue is getting rid of the English connection : what happens next doesn't really matter

DaveTheMus

CLAPTON wrote: »

yes, in reality the details don't really matter.

the issue is getting rid of the English connection : what happens next doesn't really matter

I'm certain that is the motivation for some people, not myself though.

Scotland especially Glasgow has a high number of pro-IRA republicans live there, I'm sure those guys really hate English people and I'm sure they will be voting YES.

CLAPTON

DaveTheMus wrote: »

I'm certain that is the motivation for some people, not myself though.

Scotland especially Glasgow has a high number of pro-IRA republicans live there, I'm sure those guys really hate English people and I'm sure they will be voting YES.

so what is your motivation then?


(given the violence that the Scots inflicted on the Irish I can only assume they are very ignorant of Irish/ English/ Scottish history or maybe are little confused)

DaveTheMus

CLAPTON wrote: »

so what is your motivation then?


(given the violence that the Scots inflicted on the Irish I can only assume they are very ignorant of Irish/ English/ Scottish history or maybe are little confused)

They weren't bombing any cities in Scotland throughout their terror campaign though, the violence dished out isn't the issue. In their view it's the partition of Ireland that's the issue.

The people I describe are ignorant full stop.

The pro-IRA republicans are Scottish. Scottish of Irish descent, republicans in that they don't believe in a monarchy. There's a big problem with protestant/catholic violence and bigotry up here.

The catholic side of that are very pro-independence and the protestant side are very anti-independence.

Catholics dislike Protestants, Protestants dislike Catholics, Protestants dislike the Irish, Catholics dislike the English. However much they hate Irish or English people, they hate each other even more.

The orange-order in Scotland recently registered to be a 'permitted participant', they're protestant and very much pro-Union. There are numerous Republican flute bands who are all pro-independence, the reasons on both sides are bigoted.


All these people are on the fringes of society though and their motives don't represent the motive of your average working person in Scotland.

antrobus

DaveTheMus wrote: »

I haven't seen much relating to the EU or EFTA. I've read a few articles stating that Scotland will most likely be blocked by Spain so EFTA seems to be the plan B.

Joining EFTA is neither here nor there. That only gets you into a free trade area with 4 other small countries. Getting into EFTA does not automatically confer membership of the EEA, that is a seperate agreement. If there was a nation that wanted to block Scotland's membership of the EU it could equally well block Scotland's membership of the EEA. If Scotland isn't in the EU/EEA it will be the wrong side of the tarriff wall and its economy will be &^%$£* for a good few years.

P.S. Spain has made it clear that it will not block Scotland.

P.S.S The SNP has no Plan B as far as I can see.

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

P.S. Spain has made it clear that it will not block Scotland.

When did that change? I must have missed it.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-stay-eu/17767

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

When did that change? I must have missed it.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-stay-eu/17767

So you missed it. It's easily done.:)

"We don’t interfere in other countries’ internal affairs. If Britain’s constitutional order allows – and it seems that it does allow – Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this."

Spain's position is often misunderstood. They have an issue with Catalonia, which has its own independence movement and is holding a referendum on the issue. (Although it's not constitutionally a referendum because it hasn't been approved by Madrid.) But they don't want Catalonia declaring UDI and then being recognised by the rest of Europe, so they oppose the idea of any country splitting off from another without going through the constitutionally niceties. Which is why they don't recognise Kosovo, but are quite relaxed about the likes of Latvia and Croatia etc.

What they have suggested, is that if Scotland becomes independent it will have to apply to join the EU like everybody else. Which kinda blows up Salmond's Plan A that Scotland would somehow 'inherit' EU membership. Since being the wrong side of the EU tarriff wall would blow up Scotland's economy this suggests that Scotland's hypothetical independence would be delayed until such time as the question of EU membership is decided. Which kinda blows up Salmond's 18 month timetable.

ruggedtoast

DaveTheMus wrote: »

You sure do spend a lot of time on MSE ruggedtoast...

And that old trusty fall back of the Nat, after they have failed to justify any of their tin pot arguments. The ad hominem attack, and such a weak one too.

And these people want to run a country. I think collectively you would struggle to pass a motion in Toytown. Or maybe not.