Aberdeen Royal Infirmary (ARI) Foresterhill

Iceweasel

When I was there on Wednesday I was not amused to see signs telling me that I was entering a Civil Penalty Enforcement Area.

I had a look on their website and found more things I don't like:

What will happen to motorists who do not follow the new rules?

Anyone who parks inappropriately, will receive a parking fine (known as a civil parking remedy). There is an appeals process if anyone feels they have been unfairly penalised. Details can be found on the ticket.

And this:

Parking charges
There is no charge for parking on the Foresterhill site for up to three hours
(there is a charge for the council spaces on surrounding roads). However, if
you do stay more than three hours you may be given a penalty notice. Please
note that disabled badge holders are not subject to the three hour limit.
If you have been unexpectedly delayed and have stayed for more than three
hours, you can get a waiver card from ward staff. This card includes
instructions on how to have any penalty notice cancelled.
You must only park in the areas designated for patients. You may be given a
penalty notice if you park inappropriately.

This is only a little better:

Visitors
Visitors are not permitted to park on the
main hospital site between 6.30am-4pm,
Monday to Friday. Visitors should only
use Main Car Park 2 (marked patients and
visitor access only); this is accessed from
the “loop road”. Parking attendants will
be able to direct you. Visitor parking is for
genuine visitors to our hospitals and is
extremely limited. We would encourage all
visitors to explore the transport alternatives
listed in this leaflet. A number plate
recognition system is in place and anyone
found using this car park inappropriately
will face a Civil Parking Remedy (parking
ticket). All Civil Parking Remedies provide
instructions on making payment or
submitting an appeal.

Current Scottish Government policy does not allow parking charges on NHS Scotland sites. (Except for Dundee I believe where there is some private contract which will not be renewed when it expires.)

I appreciate that parking spaces are at a premium but there is no excuse for using words that are simply wrong - and thereby inferring that these 'penalties' are legally enforceable.

For anyone searching the forum for advice if they are unfortunate to be given one of these 'penalties' / 'fines', the situation is perfectly straight forward -

Ignore completely. Do not pay or make any appeal whatsoever.

You do not need to reply, or appeal, and certainly you are under no obligation to tell them who the driver on the day was.

To make a complaint I would contact only PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service)

Umkomaas

With such utter and total lack of understanding of private parking 'regulations', you couldn't be blamed if you decided to park as you wished, wherever you wanted, for whatever length of time ......... and let them get on with 'penalising and fining' you.

Good luck to them!

Buzby

Scottish Govt policy is just that - it was brought in following Labour's agreement to sell off the car parking. Where possible, and when the deals expired the car parks reverted to free, however other charges remain until the contract expires.

The leaflet is prepared by the PPC so will clearly reflect their point of view - why is that a surprise? It is no different from the nonsense printed in certain newspapers how the SNP Govt is going to be embarrassed by a resounding NO vote come September!

The trouble is, notwithstanding parking charges, people DO abuse the facility, so for those that do and cause inconvenience what do you suggest is done? Stobhill in Glasgow used to fill with commuters as they dropped off their car to take the bus for the last few miles. If they are discouraged, is this a bad thing? You appear to believe not.

pogofish

Yup - The only Scottish hospitals allowed to retain parking charges were the few under PFI schemes - The legal implications of amending the contracts were considered insoluble.

I'd be interested to know which PPC were doing this - Smart Parking cover the University part of the site but not the public car parks and internal roads (AFAIK) and I must say that despite their track record here, I never had any problems getting a reasonable adjustment for my disability when using any of them when visiting specialist services and when work took me there. Most of the guys concerned were Uni-employed wardens though - I only once ran into a big dayglo-clad goon from Smart who despite being highly argumentative, did not rise to my challenge to "ticket me and see how much it costs your employer!"

Another part of the site hosts the local Capita offices and parking is behind a barrier with different access arrangements, although patients at certain clinics do have to use that too. Again, parking is often "creative" and I've never seen anyone ticketing.

A bit over a year ago they changed the road layout and apparently started issuing tickets to people using the bus lane - which had previously been a private but effectively public-use access across the whole site. All the publicity for that has been couched in terms of "fines" etc - so I had wondered if the road had been adopted by the council.

Apart from that, the only signs I've seen were those left over from the days before Vinci were kicked off-site but I'll have to take a look when I'm up there in a few weeks.

I'm not entirely convinced about the "abuse" argument for Foresterhill either - Anyone trying to access any part of the site by bus will soon find just how poorly and expensively connected it is to the rest of Aberdeen!

Iceweasel

Buzby wrote: »

Scottish Govt policy is just that - it was brought in following Labour's agreement to sell off the car parking. Where possible, and when the deals expired the car parks reverted to free, however other charges remain until the contract expires.

The leaflet is prepared by the PPC so will clearly reflect their point of view - why is that a surprise? It is no different from the nonsense printed in certain newspapers how the SNP Govt is going to be embarrassed by a resounding NO vote come September!

The trouble is, notwithstanding parking charges, people DO abuse the facility, so for those that do and cause inconvenience what do you suggest is done? Stobhill in Glasgow used to fill with commuters as they dropped off their car to take the bus for the last few miles. If they are discouraged, is this a bad thing? You appear to believe not.

I think you misunderstand me.

I do not condone anyone misusing the hospital parking at all.

What I do want is that the signs are correct and honest.

If someone parks all day at the hospital and gets a bus into town then I agree with a charge being necessary to deter them.

What I object to is the use of words like 'penalty', 'fine' and 'civil remedy'.

I understand the need for parking restrictions, but they have no powers to issue penalties or fines - so I may ignore their signs completely.

Threatening me with something which they have no powers to do is counterproductive and would be illegal for them to try to do it - and I would resist strongly.

It's a bit like the difference between a sign saying 'Private Property' and a sign saying 'Trespassers will be shot'.

I would respect someones request for privacy and have no issue with that - but as for 'Trespassers will be shot' -that just makes me laugh and wouldn't stop me using any road, path or access route.

pogofish

Had a look round today:

Uni car parks - Smart Parking. The usual T&C signs are clearly displayed. From what I've been able to glean, Smart actually do have a contract with Aberdeen Uni and were appointed after a planning decision for campus redevelopment forced a traffic control policy on to them, along with a CPZ on public roads that criss cross the site.

Capita Car Park - Clapped-out barriers and nothing other than a "Staff and Visitors" sign that has seen better days. You would think a PPC-owner would know better?

Breast Screening/Health centre car park - Plenty of NHS Parking/restriction signs but no visible T&Cs anywhere.

Main Visitor/Patient Car Parks - New Barriers, in and out, reg plate cameras in both directions and a very visible yellowjacket presence. Clear "Civil Penalty Enforcement Area" signs and CCTV warnings but again, no T&C signs that I could see. Different style from Health Ctr signs - Lots of yellow involved.

Didn't make it round to A&E, Childrens Hosp or Maternity car parks. Next time!

AltheHibby

"It is no different from the nonsense printed in certain newspapers how the SNP Govt is going to be embarrassed by a resounding NO vote come September!"

Let's keep the politics out of it, please. :-)

weekatiepea

Today I received a fine from SMART parking for apparently parking in a disabled bay at the IMS staff car park, I was displaying my staff voucher and hadn't realised it was a disabled bay. Is this fine enforceable? TIA

pogofish

IMS is a Uni car park, so it is Smart and there does seem to be a contract in place.

As you are staff and have a permit, you will be on the Uni staff/parking database. I don't know if Smart have access or the legal authority to chase you via HR - but at worst it would be a disciplinary issue, not any kind of legal and I have heard that a strong complaint to Uni Estates can get the ticket cancelled straight-up.

To this day, I have not heard of anyone sanctioned by the Uni for refusing to pay one of these tickets if that helps.

Coupon-mad

weekatiepea wrote: »

Today I received a fine from SMART parking for apparently parking in a disabled bay at the IMS staff car park, I was displaying my staff voucher and hadn't realised it was a disabled bay. Is this fine enforceable? TIA

IMS where - in Scotland (there's an 'IMS' in Leeds and probably elsewhere)? This thread is about Scotland and isn't the place for general questions.

Why don't you just read the 'Newbies' thread near the top of the forum and you wouldn't be asking if the charge is enforceable - nor would you be calling it a fine! Use the Forum Jump (bottom right of this page) and click 'GO' to hop to page one where the top sticky info threads are. This thread is months old and belongs to Iceweasel.

pogofish

Coupon-mad wrote: »

IMS where - in Scotland (there's an 'IMS' in Leeds and probably elsewhere)? This thread is about Scotland and isn't the place for general questions.

IMS - The Institute of Medical Sciences, its part of the Foresterhill Campus of Aberdeen University, which is very well integrated into the ARI at Foresterhill. Sometimes so well that its difficult to see where one site ends and the other begins - esp where parking is concerned.