PCN issued from IPC member and Notice to owner from BPA member???

SparFace

Thank you very much for your replies.

I was thinking to use the online facility on PCS website to submit my appeal but I gave up as it looks a little but dodgy.


Here is the draft I am thinking to send tomorrow. I am going to send it to PCS and cc to UKPS.


**************************************************

Dear Parking Collection Services

Re: Parking Charge Notice number xxxxxxx


As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
4) I am the keeper and your notice to owner is not compliant with POFA 2012. Therefore only the driver can be held responsible for this charge, not the registered keeper, and as keeper I have no legal obligation to name the driver.

Note: As you are pursuing the wrong person, you are advised that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarrassment.

If you refuse to cancel this charge, then you must provide me a unique appeal number provided by independent appeals mechanism, that I can use in an appeal to the IPC/IAS since the parking company that you act for - UKPS (North West) Ltd – is a member of the IPC.

Regards,

aaaaaaa

cc. UKPS (North West) Ltd.

***************************************************


Do I need to include below information as stated on their website?

VEHICLE REGISTRATION MARK (VRM):
VEHICLE MAKE/MODEL:


parkingcsl. co.uk/appeals/

SparFace

Hi,

[FONT=&quot]Hopefully last question:) . I drafted another one. Can you tell if it is too much and I should stick to the first one?


************************************************************


[/FONT] Dear Parking Collection Services

Re: Parking Charge Notice number xxxx
PCN DATE: xxxxxx
PCN/TICKET NUMBER: xxxxxx
VEHICLE REGISTRATION MARK (VRM): xxxxxx
VEHICLE MAKE/MODEL: xxxxxxx
Our reference number: xxxxxxx

As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
4) I am the keeper and your notice to owner is not compliant with POFA 2012. Therefore only the driver can be held responsible for this charge, not the registered keeper, and as keeper I have no legal obligation to name the driver.


Note: As you are pursuing the wrong person, you are advised that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarrassment. Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- a unique appeal number provided by independent appeals mechanism, that I can use in an appeal to the IPC/IAS since the parking company that you act for - UKPS (North West) Ltd – is a member of the IPC

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator
and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation
of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Regards,

RK

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]cc. UKPS (North West) Ltd.

***************************************************
[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

I vote for the longer version as you want them to respond to questions like 'what is the nature of the charge, contractual fee or breach?' etc.

SparFace

Hello again. I was hoping that I will announce victory with my next post, but it seems this is not the case for now. I have just received those two letters from the links below. I have sent the short version above about a month ago to UKPS and PCS and today I got reply from UKPS and DRP simultaneously. What a timing:).

In my opinion PCS backed from this case and UKPC "farmed it out" to DRP.

Any advice how to proceed?


http://wikisend.com/download/162328/UKPS_20474207.jpg


http://wikisend.com/download/989550/DRP_1_20483104.jpg


http://wikisend.com/download/251976/DRP_2_21051109.jpg

Redx

the PPC say your appeal is after the 28 days and yet its clearly not 28 days since you appealed the NTO

its also not POFA compliant so the RK isnt liable

not sure if you can complain to the IPC so I would hope you have complained to the DVLA as asked earlier in this thread

as long as you never tell them who the driver was then any court claims would fail on the non-pofa issue never mind anything else

if you can complain to the IPC about this citing your appeal to the NTO and proof of posting then do so

DRP cannot do anything at all so ignore the debt collectors

it does say you can write to them about a breach of their code http://www.theipc.info/#!faq/cl0a

SparFace

I haven't complaint to DVLA yet. I was hoping to get this ticket cancelled and then to file that complaint. I will do that now. Just to clarify I need to complain to DVLA because they have provided my details to a company which does not offer independent appeals process explicitly? This should be the reason for my complaint to DVLA?

As in the letter from PCS there was no explicit text which states where I have to appeal to, I assume, as they being member of BPA, I have to appeal to BPA. I haven't had any response from PCS.

Maybe I write to both IPC and BPA?

Redx

SparFace wrote: »

I haven't complaint to DVLA yet. I was hoping to get this ticket cancelled and then to file that complaint. I will do that now. Just to clarify I need to complain to DVLA because they have provided my details to a company which does not offer independent appeals process explicitly? This should be the reason for my complaint to DVLA?

As in the letter from PCS there was no explicit text which states where I have to appeal to, I assume, as they being member of BPA, I have to appeal to BPA. I haven't had any response from PCS.

Maybe I write to both IPC and BPA?

you really are in a muddle here

you didnt complain to the dvla despite being advised to over a month ago !

little point asking for help if you ignore it

your PPC is a member of the IPC and yet you have brought up the rival service , namely the BPA - The BPA have nothing to do with this at all as your PPC is on the IPC AOS list, I checked !

I would say that your PPC actually does offer an IAS , which is the IAS for the IPC, seeing as they are a member, so no you cannot complain they dont offer something when clearly they do

your ppc are not offering the IAS because they say your appeal was too late, they didnt say they dont offer it at all !

PCS are the debt collectors AFAIK, seeing as they are not the PPC

your complaint to the IPC, should indicate a code breach due to not being offered an IAS code for appealing to the IAS, providing your appeal was made within 28 days of the NTO being sent to you

SparFace

Sorry for spamming all day. What do you think about this draft to IPC? It is not very smooth but do you think this should be the idea of my letter to them ?

The Independent Parking Committee
4 The Stables
Red Cow Yard
Knutsford
Cheshire
WA16 6DG


Dear sir,

I am writing this letter to inform you about a serious breach of your code, which resulted in significant nuisance for myself. As the registered keeper of ******** with plate number ****** I have received on 12.06.2014 a parking invoice (named Notice to Owner) which of course, I declined to pay. This invoice was regarding a Parking Charge that has been issued on 22.03.2014. Enclosed I am sending copies of my appeal and proof of postage.
Yesterday I have received another letter from one of your valuable and honored members UKPC (North West) Ltd, dated 26.06.2014 and mailed almost a month later on 22.07.2014 (enclosed I am sending a copy of the envelope). In this letter UKPC (North West) Ltd states that I was out of 28 day time period to appeal my parking charge notice. As this is just not true and the Notice to Owner is not POFA compliant I demand you to contact this member of your organization and advise them to conduct the case according to the code of your organization.

Redx

too many spelling mistakes and the last part is incorrect

they have to be a member of the BPA or the IPC in order to get dvla details, so its totally incorrect , which I did explain in my previous reply

suggest you reword it and check for spelling mistakes as this is going to a solicitors office

SparFace

Thanx Redx, I just noticed your reply aftter I have posted the draft, so I removed the DVLA part. There will be rewording and I have corrected some of the mistaked I've noticed already. I just wanted to be sure that this should be the idea of my letter. Thanx again.