PCN issued from IPC member and Notice to owner from BPA member???

SparFace

Hi,

First of all I would like to say that I have read the sticky treads and some more, but am still confused.

On 22.03.2014 a Parking Charge Notice was attached to my car with reason - not in bay. It was issued by UKPS (North West) Ltd - Co. Reg:7546293. As stated on the back of the ticket, if I disagree with the outcome of appeal (they imply that I would appeal this ticket and include my details) they will refer to Independent Appeal Service. They are a member of IPC.

I have read all relevant topics in the forum and decided to wait for the NTK. On the 12.06.2014 or 82 days later I have received by post a letter from Parking Collection Services, which states it is Notice to Owner. The letter says that a parking charge has been issued because my vehicle was involved in breaching the stated T&C of parking managed by their client UKPS (NW) Ltd. But it is written quite ambiguously. It is not clear who has issued the Parking Charge.

Also there is a logo of BPA stating they are approved member. On the back of that letter there are instructions, if I want to appeal. This company (PCS) seems to be member of BPA and they say if I don’t write to them in 28 days I will not be given the option to use the Independent Appeals Service(POPLA).
My question is do you know which company should I send the appeal template from the Newbies thread?

They probably sold my PCN to a BPA company, so if I appeal to one of them, they will say that the other one is the relevant one and I will miss some deadlines or something like this.


Or I should send the template to both of them?


I am in England and am the registered keeper. I am moving house in few weeks if it does matter.

Thanks in advance!

Nodding_Donkey

Just appeal to the NTK as per the sticky thread

arabesque_101

Can you scan them (both sides if there are two sides), remove all personal details including notice number, registration, time of day. Then upload to an image sharing services such as photobucket.com and put place the links here without the http:// in the front.

Also, see post #3 from Coupon-mad in this thread where she explains how PCS typically work.

Coupon-mad

I have read all relevant topics in the forum and decided to wait for the NTK. On the 12.06.2014 or 82 days later I have received by post a letter from Parking Collection Services, which states it is Notice to Owner...but it is written quite ambiguously. It is not clear who has issued the Parking Charge.

Also there is a logo of BPA stating they are approved member. On the back of that letter there are instructions, if I want to appeal. This company (PCS) seems to be member of BPA and they say if I don’t write to them in 28 days I will not be given the option to use the Independent Appeals Service(POPLA).

A perfect example of why it's good to wait! You will win then, as long as you appeal as the registered keeper as the PCS letter tells you to (which may mean appealing to UKPS not PCS, see what it says?). They are too late for keeper liability so the keeper wins as long as you don't say who was driving (so use the template appeal from the NEWBIES thread). When it comes to the IAS appeal (not POPLA) don't tick who was driving. You do NOT have to.

They probably sold my PCN to a BPA company, so if I appeal to one of them, they will say that the other one is the relevant one and I will miss some deadlines or something like this.

Nope, it's just that UKPS don't issue Notice to Keeper letters and so they 'farm it out' (not sell it) to PCS to do the admin...and they haven't sent a compliant letter in time - hence you will win if you tell the IAS all this, in the end!

SparFace

Here are the scans:

[FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/885474/1.jpg
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/370820/2.jpg[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/324726/3.jpg[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/941336/4.jpg[/FONT]

bazster

SparFace wrote: »

Here are the scans:

[FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/885474/1.jpg
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/370820/2.jpg[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/324726/3.jpg[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wikisend. com/download/941336/4.jpg[/FONT]

http://wikisend.com/download/885474/1.jpg
http://wikisend.com/download/370820/2.jpg
http://wikisend.com/download/324726/3.jpg
http://wikisend.com/download/941336/4.jpg

This is worth a strong complaint to DVLA. Parking companies requesting keeper details are required to offer an independent appeals process, but they can hardly be said to be doing that if they don't make it clear which appeals service. For once the DVLA cannot fob you off by saying it's the responsibility of the trade association: which one???

DVLA complaints procedure:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

arabesque_101

SparFace, the "notice to owner" is not claiming the keeper is liable, so you have nothing to worry about. And their claim is not POFA complaint so they can't claim the keeper is liable even if they wanted to.

The thing now, is try and get the thing withdrawn so you don't have to wade through all the threatograms you might receive over the next 6 months (that will go nowhere, but will waste your time reading them).

The question is exactly as you first raised, who do you appeal to?

If you appeal to PCS, then when they reject your appeal, even if they give you a popla code you won't be able to use it as the PPC is from IPC.

If you appeal to UKPS (North West), then they will most likely tell you to appeal to PCS as per the notice to keeper (although we can't assume that, they may give you an appeal code).

So I'm thinking an appeal to both, the standard appeal, and also adding a point that the notice to keeper is not POFA compliant so no Keeper liabliity applies. In both letters you would refer to the "notice to onwer" and make no reference to the windscreen ticket. Let's see what the other members say.

bazster

This raises the intriguing and amusing possibility of the same ticket being appealed to both appeal services, and the even more amusing possibility of the two appeal services producing different results!

I think if it were me I'd try to engineer that very situation just for the hell of it!

arabesque_101

I did a bit more of a search of the forums last night on this one. A few people have said there is no point appealing to Parking Collection Services as they are not the PPC and cannot cancel the charge. However, I found this thread where PCS did cancel the charge on behalf of another company. It wasn't as as result of an appeal, but as a result of a complaint, but nevertheless shows PCS can cancel a charge for another company they act as agent for. So I believe you should put in an appeal to PCS. Something like this:

Dear Parking Collection Services

Re: Parking Charge Notice number xxxxxxx


As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
4) I am the keeper and your notice to owner is not compliant with POFA 2012. Therefore only the driver can be held responsible for this charge, not the registered keeper, and as keeper I have no legal obligation to name the driver.

Note: As you are pursuing the wrong person, you are advised that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarrassment.

If you refuse to cancel this charge, then you must provide me a unique IAS appeal number that I can use in an appeal to the IPC/IAS since the parking company that you act for - UKPS (North West) Ltd – is a member of the IPC.

Regards,

aaaaaaa

cc. UKPS (North West) Ltd.

---

I suggest you obtain a free proof of posting certificate at your post office, and also send a copy of the appeal to UKPS (North West) Ltd.

The_Slithy_Tove

You carefully said "Your ATA Code of Practice" at the top, presumably in order to allow them to slip up, but then you name the IAS further on. Should you not keep it generic, and just refer to the independent appeals mechanism (lower case, therefore not necessarily the IAS)?

Coupon-mad

Of course you appeal to whoever PCS tell you to. However I have seen their Notice to Owner forms sometimes telling you to appeal to the PPC. So just send the template to whichever address is given for appeals.

This is no biggie, this is just PCS mucking up the admin which hands you a win on a plate as long as you appeal to whoever the letter from PCS says you should. This is being over-thought!