PCN Appeals

Quickathri

Also, as a Newbie, I am finding it a bit difficult to follow some of the abbreviations used. Apologies, if I need to clarify some of these.

Dee140157

All the abbreviations are explained in the Newbie thread hopefully, so when reading through posts, is is useful to keep that post open in a new tab.

The aim of this forum is to help people who need it. The expectation is that you always check in the Newbie thread first in case the answer is there.

If you search using the search on the front page of this forum for EG Equality act it will find you several cases where this is an issue and some may even have a draft appeal.

The IPC are a new bunch of guys in town and as such insist their companies do not use breach of contract as a parking model. This is why the appeals have to be worded differently. It is also why it is useful to see what the signs/ letter from them say. In case they have broken the IPC code of practice. So it is important you draft the letter for checking as we do not want you to fall. The forum 100% success at POPLA, we want that same figure to be replicated for the IPC.

Quickathri

Good morning all.














Re the second appeal, the letter says "The Parking Charge Notice was issued for failing to display a valid disabled badge."
It goes onto say "Parking Control Management are contracted to manage the parking within this area and the Parking Charge Notice has been issued in accordance with this parking management scheme." It says PCM are confident their signage is adequate and compliant in all areas and clearly states that parking restrictions are in force. They tell me that the parking restrictions are "concise and clearly displayed through out the disabled parking areas."
I am told "The misuse of disabled bays and fraudulent use of Blue Badges is widespread; to combat this we cannot accept claims of disability or copies of Blue Badges provided after the Parking Charge Notice is issued as valid entitlement to park."
They say they appreciate the circumstances why the vehicle was parked where it was but "mitigating circumstances cannot be taken into account at this stage of appeal. They say the issue is not one of pre-estimation of loss but of contractual agreement. "the driver had clearly entered into a contractual obligation when choosing to park on the site. The driver agreed to the charge, terms and conditions advertised and deemed them to be fair, otherwise they would not have parked on that site or would have chosen to park elsewhere." Also, if the driver did not read the signs then that is their responsibility. They say I "parked in a manner whereby I agreed to pay the charge and the PCN will not be rescinded." Additionally, I am informed that the independent adjudicator is unable to cancel the charge on grounds of mitigation only on facts and evidence. If I choose to do nothing PCM will seek to recover the money via their debt recovery procedures and may proceed with court action.
Regarding the picture they have taken of their signage it is difficult to read all of it as the quality is not sufficient to read the smaller writing. I can see BPA initials towards the bottom but cannot see PCM's name on it. Would that be important? Should I try to go to see if their name appears on the signs? PCM's telephone number is shown because I rang them on site when I got the first PCN - the one I did not hear anything further on until I got the debt collector's letter. During that phone call I was told to appeal in writing, enclosing a copy of my passenger's Blue Badge. I did offer them the opportunity during the call to speak to my passenger but they declined.
Thanks.

Coupon-mad

They say the issue is not one of pre-estimation of loss but of contractual agreement.

So...the question is, do their signs, the PCN and the NTK (if you waited for the NTK before appealing) bear that out?! Probably not if as you say the signs are old BPA ones rather than the new IPC version which is worded to be a 'contractual fee'. Can you tell us exactly what the signs say or show us the picture of it, and pics/scans of the NTK* or PCN* or both if you waited for the NTK before appealing? All wording, all small print, both sides please (obviously just put a post-it or bit of paper to cover up your PCN number/refs/car reg/name/address).

Was there a sign at the entrance?

Have you admitted to being the driver?

As a newbie, please read this - YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST A WORKING LINK SO REMOVE THE HTTP FIRST OR PUT SOME GAPS IN THE URL TO YOUR PICS HOSTED ON TINYPIC OR PHOTOBUCKET OR SIMILAR PHOTO HOSTING SITE.

As I said above, 'No GPEOL'* will work for you as a winning argument at IAS if 'failure to comply' or 'contravention' or 'breach' is mentioned on the signs or PCN or Notice to Keeper (the postal notice we hope you waited for rather than appealing straight away!).

*All acronyms are explained in the top thread 'NEWBIES please read these FAQs first'.

Quickathri

As my tech skills are not good I have just spent hours typing in what the PCNs - they differ a bit. I am now told I have links in it so it cannot be posted. I did not know I had put links in and am now ready to hurl myself from a cliff cos I seem to have wasted my time.

Quickathri

I can confirm I have admitted being the driver because in my appeal I explained how the blue badge came to not be shown. Not sure about signage at entrance to site - I will drive out there and look.

Dee140157

If you can take a photo of your PCNs with the personal details covered up, upload it to your computer you can go to a site called. Www.tinypic.com and then upload it following their instructions. They will then give you a link for websites and forums. Copy this link and paste it onto your post, putting a gap between the http:// and the rest of the link. Someone who can then post the link properly will do so.
You can do the same with a photo of the sign in the car park.

I have never used tiny pic so have just gone on there and tried it out on this post. It is easy. I since deleted the photo as it was just a random one. But it is easy to do.
It is even easier of you take a phot with an ipad or iPhone or some other tablet as you will already have the photo uploaded onto it.

Coupon-mad

Quickathri wrote: »

As my tech skills are not good I have just spent hours typing in what the PCNs - they differ a bit. I am now told I have links in it so it cannot be posted. I did not know I had put links in and am now ready to hurl myself from a cliff cos I seem to have wasted my time.

Why do you think I put this (BELOW) in my reply? Why not read this again tomorrow as you don't seem to be properly reading the replies you are getting, I already told you in advance:

''As a newbie, please read this - YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST A WORKING LINK SO REMOVE THE HTTP FIRST OR PUT SOME GAPS IN THE URL TO YOUR PICS HOSTED ON TINYPIC OR PHOTOBUCKET OR SIMILAR PHOTO HOSTING SITE.''

Quickathri

Again thanks for your help so far. Apologies if you are finding it frustrating dealing with me because I'm having some difficulties. On that point you lost me when you said upload stuff to my computer. So I am going to try and pick off some of the information asked for and seek your views on a couple of draft letters I propose to send. If I break down the info into chunks then hopefully you will be able to receive it and comment.

Quickathri

OK. I drove to the shopping centre yesterday and looked at the signs in both of the areas where I had parked. They read as follows:
The sign as drivers turn into Parking Bay areas -
Front of Sign (there is no writing on the back)
Symbol at the top of a P with a cross through it and a man with a double set of lines either side of him
Controlled Parking Zone
Vehicles parked outside of marked parking spaces will be issued with parking charge notice
(This includes parking on hatched areas pedestrian walkways and roadways)
Terms or unauthorisd parking
Failure to comply with terms and conditions will result in a parking charge notice being issued
PARKING CHARGE NOTICE £95
Reduced to £57 if paid within 14 days of issue
Failure to pay within 29 days will result in the registered keepers details being requested from the DVLA
Additional charges may apply
Postal payments and appeals: PO Box 1088 Northampton NN4 4EQ
Online payments/Appeals/View Contravention - www paymypcn-uk.co.uk
Payment line:0845 591 8893
Enquiry line:01604 625631
Symbols at the bottom
Approved Operator BPA
BPA member of British Parking Association
Safe Contractor Approved

The sSign at the beginning of the disabled bays reads -
Front of Sign (there is no writing on the back)
Symbol of person in a wheelchair
Vehicles parked without displaying a valid disabled badge will be issued with a parking charge notice.
Terms of unauthorised parking
You do so at your own risk to property and you agree to your vehicle being issued with a parking charge notice
Failure to comply with terms and conditions will result in a parking charge notice being issued
PARKING CHARGE NOTICE £95
Reduced to £57 if paid within 14 days of issue
Failure to pay within 28 days will result in the registered keepers details being requested from DVLA
Additional charges may apply
Postal payments and appeals: PO Box 1088 Northampton NN4 4EQ
Online payments/Appeals/View Contravention - www paymypcn-uk.co.uk
Payment line:0845 591 8893
Enquiry line:01604 625631
Symbols at the bottom
Approved Operator BPA
BPA member of British Parking Association
Safe Contractor Approved
　
The signs are the same at both places where a PCN was issued
The disabled bays are alongside parent and child bays at both locations

Notes:
Yesterday someone had parked in a parent and child bay displaying a Blue Badge.
The signs don't require parents and children to display any badges.
At the second site the first sign is placed next to the road as you drive into the parking area. So you have to either stop in the road and get out to read it or park walk over to it and then stand in the road (carefully) to read it.

Is that the information you require. Apologies for any typing errors.