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Orange 'free' broadband. Please help, they are ripping us off nearly £200!!
GreedIsGood
Posts: 14 Forumite
in Mobiles
Hello fellow moneysavers,
I’ll apologise in advance. This is long, but it’s worth a read. Especially if those reading are thinking of getting Orange free broadband:
Here we go…..
My girlfriend took out an Orange phone on a particular tariff which she was told entitled her to free broadband. This was done in July 2006. Shortly after the phone was activated, she received her ‘broadband welcome pack’. This pack included the hardware necessary to connect to the broadband, along with the guidance documentation. More importantly, this pack included letters which clearly welcome my girlfriend to the free broadband. This letter is personal, rather than a standard letter. One of the ‘set up’ stages of setting up the free broadband is that Orange takes your bank details. They use this to set up a direct debit which they say will collect any monies due from any usage that breaches their ‘fair use policy’. My girlfriend is a low user of the internet and so never breaches this limit.
Following the setup, my girlfriend had a trouble free broadband and mobile phone service for some 11 months. Earlier this year, she was called and offered a free handset upgrade, with the only condition that she sign up for a further 18 months contract. She was assured that the terms and conditions of both her mobile phone and broadband would remain unchanged.
As she was happy with the service, she accepted the upgrade offer.
Recently, my girlfriend has adopted on-line banking (she has been a customer of the same bank since being in her teens, and the account she has was slow to catch up with technology). Whilst browsing her account for the first time, she spotted a £17.99 payment to ‘Orange Home’ that had been taken from her account.
She queried this with the bank and it transpired that £17.99 had in fact, been coming out since day 1. In total, £197.89 had been taken in error, i.e. £17.99 x 11 months. My girlfriend immediately stopped the direct debit and queried this.
At this point it is worth noting that my g/f lives in a flat with non-secure, communal postage areas. Some of her mail has been known to disappear, but we accept that she should have checked her bank statements more clearly.
My girlfriend then decided to ring Orange. She first did this on 21/06/07, specifically speaking to the bb department. She was told that this was their mistake and the money would be back in her bank account by 28/06/07 (Graham, Rotherham office). Graham said that in order for her to keep her equipment (Orange ‘livebox’ device), she would need to pay £5 a month, which would also get her unlimited downloads. Assuming that this would put an end to the matter, she reluctantly agreed.
Following this, she received in the post a usb bb modem. This is different to the ‘livebox’ equipment that she was given originally, as it lacks the hardware firewall, voip and wireless functionality. This happened around the 28/06/07. She also separately received a letter saying that she must return the livebox equipment, otherwise she would receive a £100 penalty.
Upon receiving this equipment and letter, she rang bb (the number on the letter she received) to query it. She was told that everything was still on for the BACS refund and that she should ignore the letter and keep the usb modem. On several occasions she offered to return it.
On the 29/06/07, she noticed that the refund had not been repaid in to her account, so she again, queried it with the Orange broadband department. At this point she was told that the first representative had told her the incorrect information, and that in fact she needed to contact the mobile phone department.
The next step was that my g/f contacted the mobile side of things once more. This time, they said that in fact, she needed to contact the bb department, as they handle payments. She was promised a call back after 6 pm on 09/07/07.
At 6.30 on this date, I myself rang Orange bb. I spoke to a helpful chap (Martin, again in Rotherham) who explained in a little more detail what had happened. Apparently, the system works based on customer accounts. These accounts are separate to a customer’s mobile phone account. On customer’s bb accounts, they can have various products applied, for example, when different customers are on different tariffs. One of those products is ‘free bb’. It would seem that this was never applied to my g/f’s account, despite the fact that her documentation said otherwise.
Martin asked where we wanted to go from this point. He advised on the benefits of paying £5 a month which would entitle her to unlimited downloads. I advised Martin that my g/f’s usage pattern would not make full use of the extra benefits of the £5 monthly product. Subsequently I advised Martin that she would like to decline the £5 monthly offer and simply retain ‘free’ bb as she should have had from the start. Martin agreed but said that if he removed the existing account product and replaced it with a free product, the computer would generate a) a letter requesting return of the livebox and b) an action of a usb modem being sent out. He said the best way to resolve the matter would be for him to arrange for her to remain on the £5 monthly bb package, but for free. He said he could do this for 12 months by: a) adding a 6 months free product to her bb account b) crediting the same bb account with £30 (i.e. £5 x 6 months). He said the situation would need to be reviewed in 12 months time.
Then we moved on to the matter of the £197.89. Martin put me on hold and spoke to the mobile phone part of the business. He came back and said yes, she had been entitled to free bb from day 1, but that he did not have the authority to activate the refund, as his limit was £80. After putting me on hold again, he said we’d need to ring customer services for the mobile phones section. He said my other option was to write to the head office in Rotherham. He said that although he worked on the same site, he could not contact them himself.
On the 10/07/07, I rang Orange customer services, for the mobile phones section, as instructed, to discuss the refund. I was told by a polite girl that Orange mobiles section’s systems only log payments made to mobile phone accounts. She said that there would be no way that she could ever see any payments made to bb accounts, as this information would lie on the bb accounting systems. She said that the only reference to bb on a customer’s mobile phone account is a bb free indicator product. This indicator, (either ‘yes’ or ‘no’) depicts if a customer meets the criteria for free bb (i.e. a mobile phone monthly tariff of £30 or more). This indicator had been set to ‘yes’, since July 2006. She advised that I would need to take the matter up with the bb department, as her direct dial to them had been recently withdrawn, to further separate the business.
I immediately rang the bb section and explained what had been said. At this point I was met with a rather unhelpful girl, again, in the Rotherham office. She advised me that the ONLY way we could get any form of refund would be to send the ORIGINAL copy of the ‘welcome to free bb’ letter in to head office, along with a covering letter. I am reluctant to do this as I fear it will disappear. My question (finally) is: What should we do now? I am tempted to hit it from several angles including the local papers and watchdog. Maybe we could take it further? I am also tempted to write to head office, as instructed, but to include a certified copy (i.e. countersigned by a solicitor) of the aforementioned letter.
We are prepared to take this as high as need be. Other than this issue we have been more than happy with the bb service. To Orange, £197.89 is no big deal, but to my g/f this is a lot of money that she cannot afford to let slip by.
Any advice you guys can offer would be very helpful.
Many thanks.
I’ll apologise in advance. This is long, but it’s worth a read. Especially if those reading are thinking of getting Orange free broadband:
Here we go…..
My girlfriend took out an Orange phone on a particular tariff which she was told entitled her to free broadband. This was done in July 2006. Shortly after the phone was activated, she received her ‘broadband welcome pack’. This pack included the hardware necessary to connect to the broadband, along with the guidance documentation. More importantly, this pack included letters which clearly welcome my girlfriend to the free broadband. This letter is personal, rather than a standard letter. One of the ‘set up’ stages of setting up the free broadband is that Orange takes your bank details. They use this to set up a direct debit which they say will collect any monies due from any usage that breaches their ‘fair use policy’. My girlfriend is a low user of the internet and so never breaches this limit.
Following the setup, my girlfriend had a trouble free broadband and mobile phone service for some 11 months. Earlier this year, she was called and offered a free handset upgrade, with the only condition that she sign up for a further 18 months contract. She was assured that the terms and conditions of both her mobile phone and broadband would remain unchanged.
As she was happy with the service, she accepted the upgrade offer.
Recently, my girlfriend has adopted on-line banking (she has been a customer of the same bank since being in her teens, and the account she has was slow to catch up with technology). Whilst browsing her account for the first time, she spotted a £17.99 payment to ‘Orange Home’ that had been taken from her account.
She queried this with the bank and it transpired that £17.99 had in fact, been coming out since day 1. In total, £197.89 had been taken in error, i.e. £17.99 x 11 months. My girlfriend immediately stopped the direct debit and queried this.
At this point it is worth noting that my g/f lives in a flat with non-secure, communal postage areas. Some of her mail has been known to disappear, but we accept that she should have checked her bank statements more clearly.
My girlfriend then decided to ring Orange. She first did this on 21/06/07, specifically speaking to the bb department. She was told that this was their mistake and the money would be back in her bank account by 28/06/07 (Graham, Rotherham office). Graham said that in order for her to keep her equipment (Orange ‘livebox’ device), she would need to pay £5 a month, which would also get her unlimited downloads. Assuming that this would put an end to the matter, she reluctantly agreed.
Following this, she received in the post a usb bb modem. This is different to the ‘livebox’ equipment that she was given originally, as it lacks the hardware firewall, voip and wireless functionality. This happened around the 28/06/07. She also separately received a letter saying that she must return the livebox equipment, otherwise she would receive a £100 penalty.
Upon receiving this equipment and letter, she rang bb (the number on the letter she received) to query it. She was told that everything was still on for the BACS refund and that she should ignore the letter and keep the usb modem. On several occasions she offered to return it.
On the 29/06/07, she noticed that the refund had not been repaid in to her account, so she again, queried it with the Orange broadband department. At this point she was told that the first representative had told her the incorrect information, and that in fact she needed to contact the mobile phone department.
The next step was that my g/f contacted the mobile side of things once more. This time, they said that in fact, she needed to contact the bb department, as they handle payments. She was promised a call back after 6 pm on 09/07/07.
At 6.30 on this date, I myself rang Orange bb. I spoke to a helpful chap (Martin, again in Rotherham) who explained in a little more detail what had happened. Apparently, the system works based on customer accounts. These accounts are separate to a customer’s mobile phone account. On customer’s bb accounts, they can have various products applied, for example, when different customers are on different tariffs. One of those products is ‘free bb’. It would seem that this was never applied to my g/f’s account, despite the fact that her documentation said otherwise.
Martin asked where we wanted to go from this point. He advised on the benefits of paying £5 a month which would entitle her to unlimited downloads. I advised Martin that my g/f’s usage pattern would not make full use of the extra benefits of the £5 monthly product. Subsequently I advised Martin that she would like to decline the £5 monthly offer and simply retain ‘free’ bb as she should have had from the start. Martin agreed but said that if he removed the existing account product and replaced it with a free product, the computer would generate a) a letter requesting return of the livebox and b) an action of a usb modem being sent out. He said the best way to resolve the matter would be for him to arrange for her to remain on the £5 monthly bb package, but for free. He said he could do this for 12 months by: a) adding a 6 months free product to her bb account b) crediting the same bb account with £30 (i.e. £5 x 6 months). He said the situation would need to be reviewed in 12 months time.
Then we moved on to the matter of the £197.89. Martin put me on hold and spoke to the mobile phone part of the business. He came back and said yes, she had been entitled to free bb from day 1, but that he did not have the authority to activate the refund, as his limit was £80. After putting me on hold again, he said we’d need to ring customer services for the mobile phones section. He said my other option was to write to the head office in Rotherham. He said that although he worked on the same site, he could not contact them himself.
On the 10/07/07, I rang Orange customer services, for the mobile phones section, as instructed, to discuss the refund. I was told by a polite girl that Orange mobiles section’s systems only log payments made to mobile phone accounts. She said that there would be no way that she could ever see any payments made to bb accounts, as this information would lie on the bb accounting systems. She said that the only reference to bb on a customer’s mobile phone account is a bb free indicator product. This indicator, (either ‘yes’ or ‘no’) depicts if a customer meets the criteria for free bb (i.e. a mobile phone monthly tariff of £30 or more). This indicator had been set to ‘yes’, since July 2006. She advised that I would need to take the matter up with the bb department, as her direct dial to them had been recently withdrawn, to further separate the business.
I immediately rang the bb section and explained what had been said. At this point I was met with a rather unhelpful girl, again, in the Rotherham office. She advised me that the ONLY way we could get any form of refund would be to send the ORIGINAL copy of the ‘welcome to free bb’ letter in to head office, along with a covering letter. I am reluctant to do this as I fear it will disappear. My question (finally) is: What should we do now? I am tempted to hit it from several angles including the local papers and watchdog. Maybe we could take it further? I am also tempted to write to head office, as instructed, but to include a certified copy (i.e. countersigned by a solicitor) of the aforementioned letter.
We are prepared to take this as high as need be. Other than this issue we have been more than happy with the bb service. To Orange, £197.89 is no big deal, but to my g/f this is a lot of money that she cannot afford to let slip by.
Any advice you guys can offer would be very helpful.
Many thanks.
Lunch is for wimps!
0
Comments
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SO... now England its the Scots turn to say dont leave the UK, stay in Europe with us in the UK, dont let the tories fool you like they did us with empty lies... You will be leaving the UK aswell as Europe
0 -
Diamonds,
Thanks for that, I'll drop them a line.
Any advice for my course of action if I get no where with them?
ThanksLunch is for wimps!0 -
go into an orange shop and do not leave until they sort it out (save your phone bill)
if they try and convince you to call up say no, be firm but calm, and say that its an ORANGE issue an since you are in an ORANGE shop they should be able to fix it.0 -
I think this is all a major but common mistake of orange's
I think best thing to do was take the £80 that he was offering and then claim that he gave it so u stay on ur account...because he is allowed to give you some money for u to do so...thats how he gave the £30 onto ur account.
I believe you shud follow this now by sending the original documents and writing a long letter about how you feel and about all thats happened however send it recorded delivery and also take photocopies of everything and at that point leave a one month gap if you do not get anything back contact watch dog. Do not let them get away with any of your money and i fully understand what your girlfriend has done by missing the payments on her bank statement ...hehehe same thing happened to me with something else
Going into the original phone shop where you bought it or a orange shop could be great for you as you can speak to there adminstrator and get it sorted
The best of luck mate0 -
Thanks everyone for the advice. I have had further advice from a couple of dealers that the executive office should be able to help.
I will contact them and let you know the results.
For now, I will send them an email, offering to send the scanned doc first. If they push for the original I will send them a certified copy.
I am tempted to go into the Orange shop but if I take the 'I am not moving until you sort it out' stance, they'll probably move me with the aid of the police :rotfl:
Thanks againLunch is for wimps!0
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