Notice Period on AST moving to SPA

jjlandlord

sauceychoco wrote: »

Thanks Annie, I will be handing in 1 months notice by hand as of the first day of my periodic tenancy and will take it from there.

Note than no-one argued that you should give 2 months notice, just that serving notice on the first day on the periodic tenancy won't permit it to validly expire at the end of the first month (which I still think is the case, as I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary).

franklee

A periodic tenancy is a new tenancy. You can't serve notice to end a tenancy before it's started. So notice needs to be served after the periodic tenancy starts. The notice needs to be at least one whole period. So I can't see how there would be time to serve notice to end at the end of the first period of a periodic tenancy. However if the OP is committed to a new property may was well do it anyway and then raise a dispute with the deposit scheme as the OP might get away with it.

sauceychoco, given the property is to be sold soon is it possible to agree a deal with the landlord. Do you have the landlord's address? If not write to the agent and ask for it.

Would it be cheaper to let the new property go if a holding deposit as just been paid or have you AND the new landlord/agent actually signed the tenancy agreement? You could tell Romans Lettings that you will cancel the new property and are going to stay on unless they accept your notice? That may upset the sale enough for them to start dealing.

If you really have to move and pay another months rent then I'd be refusing all viewings builder's visits etc. and a new occupier shouldn't move in. Beware though that if you pay the rent you won't be entitled to a refund so maybe best not to pay the last month upfront and then see if anyone moves in and offer to pay till that date only?

Annie1960

Excellent points, franklee, I had lost sight of the fact the LL is selling the property. Well spotted!

Regarding the periodic tenancy, yes this is a new tenancy, but can the tenant not give notice on the first day of this? The new tenancy will have started, and won't the notice be valid as long as the notice is hand-delivered so it is also received on the same day?

jjlandlord

Annie1960 wrote: »

can the tenant not give notice on the first day of this? The new tenancy will have started, and won't the notice be valid as long as the notice is hand-delivered so it is also received on the same day?

Of course the tenant can serve notice on the first day.
But it's not the point.

franklee

Annie1960 wrote: »

Regarding the periodic tenancy, yes this is a new tenancy, but can the tenant not give notice on the first day of this? The new tenancy will have started, and won't the notice be valid as long as the notice is hand-delivered so it is also received on the same day?

Yes but if served on that day is the notice long enough. The question is does the day of service count as inside the notice period? I would guess not but I'm not sure.

sauceychoco

Will be giving shelter call tomorrow to see what they advise.

The tenancy has been managed by Romans so I have had no contact from the LL in the year I've been here. I dont suppose contacting them will hurt. I would be interested to know what they have been told by Romans, if anything.

The viewings have already happened and the 3rd person to view put in an offer. there has been no other access requests so I dont know how far the process is. As the flat I live in is a new build must someone view the property for the survey? I've also not been told who has put in the offer, a buy to let or someone who wants to move in, which is why I wanted to move.

The main problem I have is that no one seems to be sure. My Romans agent even told me that valid notice could be given on the first day of the periodic tenancy.

I've been web trawling to see if anyone else has had the same question but its been coming up blank.

With regards to handing in the notice, shall I bring someone with me as a witness or make sure I get some sort of receipt? Romans wouldn't refuse a receipt would they?

G_M

To repeat my contention:

*As to the length of the notice required, the principle which generally applies ... is that the notice should be equal to at least a period of the tenancy [FONT=&quot]Laine and Mitchell v Cadwallader & Cadwallader (2001)[/FONT]
* Notice can expire on 1st day of a period [FONT=&quot]Crate -v- Miller[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [1947] [/FONT]

* so notice served on 1st day of a period & expiring on the 1st day of the next period would comply with both the above requirements

However I know of no examples of recent case law that either confirm or refute this.

franklee

sauceychoco wrote: »

I've been web trawling to see if anyone else has had the same question but its been coming up blank.

Here is someone with the same issue discussed on landlordzone, it has similar points to here but more detailed:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?50085-Notice-Periods-Statutory-Periodic-Tenancy

franklee

G_M wrote: »

To repeat my contention:

* Notice must be a tenancy period
* Notice can expire on 1st day of a period
* so notice served on 1st day of a period & expiring on the 1st day of the next period would be valid.

However I know of no examples of recent case law that either confirm or refute this.

I always thought this first or last day for the notice is just that the tenant can't say he'll be leaving at midnight on the last day so his notice can say either the last day of the period or the following day (first day of the next period). The tenancy would still need to end by midnight on the last day of the period. The way the notice is expressed doesn't generate an extra day.

There are a couple of cases mentioned in the landlordzone thread I just linked to but they seem to go one each way leaving the issue unclear.

G_M

franklee wrote: »

I always thought this first or last day for the notice is just that the tenant can't say he'll be leaving at midnight on the last day so his notice can say either the last day of the period or the following day (first day of the next period). The tenancy would still need to end by midnight on the last day of the period. The way the notice is expressed doesn't generate an extra day.

There are a couple of cases mentioned in the landlordzone thread I just linked to but they seem to go one each way leaving the issue unclear.

Yes. It is about the date of expiry (and I contend, service) of the notice.

it is not about the date the tenancy ends, so as you say, there is no 'extra day'.