Notice Period on AST moving to SPA

Kynthia

sauceychoco wrote: »

Can I ask why the Agent is saying this?

"Once the initial 12 months has lapsed (i.e. after the 11th June 2014) your tenancy will become periodic. This means that you can give one month’s notice from a rent due date. For example, if you gave notice on the 12th June, this wouldn’t take effect until the 12th July so your last day would be the 11th August."

What they are saying in a roundabout way is that you must give a whole rental period as notice, and that is correct. Where they are wrong is thinking that the first day of a rental period is too late to give notice, and G_M has shown you that you can. If you change their dates slightly it becomes correct. (For example, if you gave notice on the 13th June, this wouldn’t take effect until the next rental period so your last day would be the 11th August.)We usually advise people to serve their notice by the end of a rental period to be on the safe side, but in your case you'll still be in your fixed term.

sauceychoco

jjlandlord wrote: »

No, it is the expiry date that can be given as the last day of period or first day of following period to mean that tenancy will end on last day of period.

Hi, can you just clarify for me

Do you mean the notice can be given on the 11th or 12th June but must end on the last day - 11th July?

jjlandlord

sauceychoco wrote: »

Do you mean the notice can be given on the 11th or 12th June but must end on the last day - 11th July?

I said expiry, not service.

I don't think that, at law, you're going to be able to be able to end the tenancy in the 11th July.

Annie1960

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/ending_a_tenancy/ending_a_periodic_agreement

Here is what Shelter says about ending a tenancy. The issue is that you must make sure the period tenancy has started.

G_M

jjlandlord wrote: »

No, it is the expiry date that can be given as the last day of period or first day of following period to mean that tenancy will end on last day of period.

You've got me thinkingbut....

A weekly tenancy which begins on Saturday may be determined validly by notice to quit either on Friday or Saturday. Both are equally intimations that tenant is to quit when the current period ends.

So tenancy always ends at end of period.

The notice to quit can be served on Fri/or Sat (1st/last day).

OP - apologies for legalistic discussion on the side!!

jj - assuming you are right (which I question) is there then no way to end a SPT at end of 1st period?

jjlandlord

G_M wrote: »

You've got me thinking

So tenancy always ends at end of period.

The notice to quit can be served on Fri/or Sat (1st/last day).

No. Crate v. Miller is as I described earlier: expiry on last of first day for tenancy to end on last day.

G_M

jjlandlord wrote: »

No. Crate v. Miller is as I described earlier: expiry on last of first day for tenancy to end on last day.

In which case

a) OP I've mislead you and

b) a SPT cannot ever be ended at end of 1st period (unless there's some other way)

sauceychoco

G_M wrote: »

In which case

a) OP I've mislead you and

b) a SPT cannot ever be ended at end of 1st period (unless there's some other way)

Well, its not exactly what I wanted to hear. I presumed I could give a month notice once in an SPT from the first period. I was actually told that by a few people so presumed it was correct (but not understanding the importance of the dates).

I've now put myself in bad position, signing a new AST with another property and having the two overlap by more than a month. Not sure what to do next

G_M

sauceychoco wrote: »

Well, its not exactly what I wanted to hear. I presumed I could give a month notice once in an SPT from the first period. I was actually told that by a few people so presumed it was correct (but not understanding the importance of the dates).

I've now put myself in bad position, signing a new AST with another property and having the two overlap by more than a month. Not sure what to do next

Depends whether you value jjlandlord's advice (he seems confidant, but provides minimal explanation or source material) or mine (less confidant, but willing to source and justify)

:huh:

Taking jj's interpretation on, if the notice can expire on the 1st day of a period, and must be a full tenancy period in length, then it seems logical that it can also be served on the 1st day of the period....

and the 'reasonable test' established in (House of Lords decision in Mannai Investment Co Ltd v Eagle Star Assurance Co Ltd [1997] AC 749 ) would support this.

If the position were reversed, and the landlord was serving notice on the tenant (via a S21 (4)(a) ) it would be different, since the dates are specified in statute (Housing Act). But in OP's case it is contract and common law.

sauceychoco

G_M wrote: »

Depends whether you value jjlandlord's advice (he seems confidant, but provides minimal explanation or source material) or mine (less confidant, but willing to source and justify)

:huh:

Taking jj's interpretation on, if the notice can expire on the 1st day of a period, and must be a full tenancy period in length, then it seems logical that it can also be served on the 1st day of the period....

and the 'reasonable test' established in (House of Lords decision in Mannai Investment Co Ltd v Eagle Star Assurance Co Ltd [1997] AC 749 ) would support this.

If the position were reversed, and the landlord was serving notice on the tenant (via a S21 (4)(a) ) it would be different, since the dates are specified in statute (Housing Act). But in OP's case it is contract and common law.

Thanks G_M. To be honest I don't really understand jjlandlord's posts. I was using your explanations of what jj meant and it sounded that you agreed with him.

I've put myself in a situation where I possibly have to pay rent on two properties in one month so a little annoyed with myself, especially as my managing agent said one months notice would be enough. I really should have got that in writing.

Anyway, i still plan to give a months notice on the 12th. Really have nothing to lose now so might as well go for it and use your reasoning. Shall I add any of the case law you have been referring to in my new notice or just keep it short and sweet.

Appreciate all the help that I have had, and guarantee I will be donating to the charity in your signature :beer: