Sharing/conflict resolution at nursery school?

Georgiegirl256

Nicki wrote: »

NANU clearly has no aspirations for her child to assimilate in a world where a knowledge of what Christianity is about is an advantage, even if a religious belief is optional. She doesn't expect her child to go to an Oxbridge university (where grace is said before formal meals and the students are expected to know how to behave) to be able to attend a wedding or funeral service of colleagues when in the working world and know instinctively when to stand up, sit down and the normal responses to things,
!

To be fair, you don't need to have faith, have knowledge of Christianity or even be exposed to it to be able to act appropriately in the above situations.

I see you have now edited your post, as it's actually started on a Monday! But, even if it was a Sunday....the answer to your question would have been No. :cool:

notanewuser

iammumtoone wrote: »

Will the prayers/sermon be spoken in Welsh? If so as much as I agree with you it might be better to let it go (you have to pick your battles) if it just means your daughter sitting in on a lesson(s) which she can't understand and by the time she is at an age she has learnt enough Welsh to follow it you will be able to opt out.

They will, but children are sponges. To give an example, last year at playgroup they learned "Pwy wneud y crocodile" (who made the crocodile) which involves lots of animals and associated actions and is a fun, bouncy song to sing. The children learned it and DD certainly sang it repeatedly. If you ask her what it meant, she wouldn't know, except to tell you about a crocodile, an elephant, a snake etc. The last line of each verse is "yr arglwydd duw" - god.

notanewuser

Nicki wrote: »

As the head has already said she doesn't have to attend daily assemblies I can't see where she is being "forced to participate". The nursery says grace before lunch and a prayer at the end of the day. Again she can be present for these without having to participate (particularly if the parents have made it known she isn't to be asked to take any active part)

But doing so will separate her from her new friends repeatedly through the day. At 3 years old.

notanewuser

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Nothing in the context of the original posting about schools and encouraging sharing - though I guess english (as in speaking it) in a welsh medium school is as contraversial as religion in schools

Apples and pears. The point is to immerse them in the language and make it second nature for them, especially as most don't speak welsh at home.

Now, were they to do the same with religion..............

Nicki

notanewuser wrote: »

We're all of 10 miles from Cardiff. I'm not aware of any scriptures banning travel.

I didn't say there were scriptures banning travel. I said it was common place in my area for religious leaders from a variety of faiths to attend school but that might not happen if you lived somewhere remote. As you don't apparently live somewhere remote do you know for a fact that only the C of E vicar attends? If you do, that is almost certainly open to legal challenge

We don't. We are happy with religious EDUCATION, but not INDOCTRINATION into one specific religion not of DD's choosing! Is that really so hard for an experienced lawyer to understand?

As I don't consider anything you have described (ie being allowed not to attend the daily assembly at all, and just being present in a classroom when others are repeating a short grace and saying a short prayer at home time without being asked to take any active part to be "indoctrination", I don't think I have misunderstood anything. Other than what element of religious EDUCATION your child is getting at the school if you are removing her from everything in any way related to religion.

So non-christian children cant behave? DD is 3. She has plenty of time to decide what she believes and whether or not she wants to go to any university, never mind an oxbridge one!

Who said that? Understanding how to behave in a particular setting is rather different to behaving well generally. I have never been line dancing, so I would have no idea at a barn dance which way to turn, when to move, or what to do, and would generally stick out like a sore thumb. That doesn't mean I would be behaving badly though just that I didn't understand what the behaviour expectations were.

She attended church for the first time aged 6 months when her (very religious) great grandmother died. I daresay she'll be exposed through things like that during her life time. I'm not sure how you think saying prayers at school is going to teach her anything about church funerals though! (Incidentally, one half of the family is jewish, so her outside school experiences will be broader than the school ones will.)

Jolly good. I think school assemblies will teach her the basics such as how long the Lord's Prayer is, so she doesn't accidentally sit down before it is finished, to bow her head and close her eyes when expected or at least sit silently, and the most common hymns just by way of example. Perhaps she will pick all this up from the funerals of those family members who are religious. Are you otherwise planning on taking her to church and if so why is being present for this element of the school curriculum such an issue? Faith isn't infectious you know. If you are, to use your own words, indoctrinating her hard in atheism at home, it is highly unlikely that school will convert her in a few short minutes unless she chooses to be converted. Or would her own free choice in the matter not be allowed?

Happy for her to be exposed to all religions, via RE, not via prayers to a deity of the school/government's choice.



:huh: It was started on a Monday.

you were quick off the mark. That sentence was deleted about 10 seconds after the reply was posted when I realised that it was just that I saw the thread for the first time today not that it started today. However, as you have quoted it I am happy to apologise and say I made a (10 second) mistake on that.

Responses in red

Nicki

notanewuser wrote: »

But doing so will separate her from her new friends repeatedly through the day. At 3 years old.

You can't dictate the curriculum for the whole school based on not wanting your child to do something! All you can do is ask for her not to do it if it is important to you.

Could a fundamental evangelical insist that the school refuse to cover homosexuality in the sex ed classes because they don't want their child to hear about this, or to be made to look different by being taken out of classes? Your stance is no different.

notanewuser

Nicki wrote: »

I didn't say there were scriptures banning travel. I said it was common place in my area for religious leaders from a variety of faiths to attend school but that might not happen if you lived somewhere remote. As you don't apparently live somewhere remote do you know for a fact that only the C of E vicar attends? If you do, that is almost certainly open to legal challenge

It's an unknown as yet, but something i'll be talking to the Head about.

Nicki wrote: »

As I don't consider anything you have described (ie being allowed not to attend the daily assembly at all, and just being present in a classroom when others are repeating a short grace and saying a short prayer at home time without being asked to take any active part to be "indoctrination", I don't think I have misunderstood anything. Other than what element of religious EDUCATION your child is getting at the school if you are removing her from everything in any way related to religion.

I never said we'd remove her from anything related to religion - just the stuff where it is presented as fact rather than "some people believe, i.e. assembly, grace, end of day prayer. School have confirmed she would be "taken elsewhere" while that was happening, which appears designed to discourage.

Nicki wrote: »

Who said that? Understanding how to behave in a particular setting is rather different to behaving well generally. I have never been line dancing, so I would have no idea at a barn dance which way to turn, when to move, or what to do, and would generally stick out like a sore thumb. That doesn't mean I would be behaving badly though just that I didn't understand what the behaviour expectations were.

Why would that be a problem?

Nicki wrote: »

Jolly good. I think school assemblies will teach her the basics such as how long the Lord's Prayer is, so she doesn't accidentally sit down before it is finished, to bow her head and close her eyes when expected or at least sit silently, and the most common hymns just by way of example. Perhaps she will pick all this up from the funerals of those family members who are religious. Are you otherwise planning on taking her to church and if so why is being present for this element of the school curriculum such an issue? Faith isn't infectious you know. If you are, to use your own words, indoctrinating her hard in atheism at home, it is highly unlikely that school will convert her in a few short minutes unless she chooses to be converted. Or would her own free choice in the matter not be allowed?

It's all about her free choice. Should she ever show any interest in finding out more about or following any religion, we would of course accommodate that. We aren't indoctrinating her into atheism (unless doing nothing is indoctrination!), we are leaving her free to explore the ideas for herself without any view from us (in the same way that she's exposed to all kinds of food and not forced into vegetarianism just because I am. She can make her own mind up in her own time.)

DH and I attend church services only as a mark of respect for those that choose to have weddings, christenings and funerals in them. We sit and stand, but we don't take active part, kneel, close eyes, sing or respond. Should DD ever want to know why, then we'll tell her, but in terms of "we believe this, others believe that, what do you believe?"

Nicki wrote: »

you were quick off the mark. That sentence was deleted about 10 seconds after the reply was posted when I realised that it was just that I saw the thread for the first time today not that it started today. However, as you have quoted it I am happy to apologise and say I made a (10 second) mistake on that.

Took me a bit longer than 10 seconds to type my reply, but thank you.

Brighton_belle

Nicki wrote: »

You can't dictate the curriculum for the whole school based on not wanting your child to do something! All you can do is ask for her not to do it if it is important to you.

Could a fundamental evangelical insist that the school refuse to cover homosexuality in the sex ed classes because they don't want their child to hear about this, or to be made to look different by being taken out of classes? Your stance is no different.

NANU isn't asking the school don't cover religion and /or Christianity. So a correct analogy would be a fundamental evangelist refusing to let their child participate in homosexual sex in class, not asking that it isn't discussed at all?

notanewuser

Nicki wrote: »

You can't dictate the curriculum for the whole school based on not wanting your child to do something! All you can do is ask for her not to do it if it is important to you.

Could a fundamental evangelical insist that the school refuse to cover homosexuality in the sex ed classes because they don't want their child to hear about this, or to be made to look different by being taken out of classes? Your stance is no different.

I'm not dictating. I'm asking why it happens and am not satisfied with the answers I'm getting. I can't imagine the staff start conversations about any kind of sex during the day. It comes up as part of lessons. Assembly, grace and prayers at sometime aren't part of lessons (and until age 7 children in Wales learn through play which makes this even more bizarre to me.)

In your example the child would be excluded from 1 lesson. In my case my DD would be excluded 3 times a day.

notanewuser

notanewuser wrote: »

What's the value? I don't think we've had a clear answer on that point.

Still no answer to this? :think: