The rise of Extremism in Economically tough times

kabayiri

Does the rise in extremism suggest that people want to find an easy target for their frustrations ?


It doesn't take long to look in the history books and see how a fledgling Nazi party was able to tap into a relatively small source of discontent (initially) and make great political capital out of it.


Does it matter whether their perceptions are founded on fact? To a politician perception is the key thing.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

EVERY poll measures opinion.

If we are just suggest that votes do not count because they are based on opinion, then we also have to assume that the economists referenced on this thread also do not count, as they too, are based on opinion.

Can't you see the difference?

tomterm8

kabayiri wrote: »

Does it matter whether their perceptions are founded on fact? To a politician perception is the key thing.

There are two perceptions here:
1. I am struggling, and afraid that I won't be able to provide for my family/drug habit/mistress like I used to and,
2. It's all the fault of X.

Where X is someone who is different than you... i.e. unemployed, or sick, or foreign, or a different religion.

The first perception is definitely true during times of turmoil. The second perception is normally wrong, but this doesn't mean that people don't believe it, and don't act on their belief.

kabayiri

tomterm8 wrote: »

...

I'm dubious about this. It stands to reason that just like free trade the fact that on average everyone is better off doesn't mean that for an individual person it can't make them worse off.

If someone finds themselves displaced in work, do they seek solace by telling themselves the nation is better off as a whole?


I doubt it.


It's tricky. I'm a fan of change personally; I think we should strive to improve things continually, but I can see how change makes people uncomfortable.

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

People who don't like foreigners are xenophobes by definition.

"not liking foreigners" is quite different to "not liking to live around foreigners".

I like wide open spaces. It doesn't mean I want to live in solitary in the said wide open space.

We find communities of certain races in all areas of the country. People naturally gravitate to communities. Doesn't matter if you are black or white, Jew, Armish or Hillbilly or Travellers. Most people tend to gravitate to living in communities and it's an entirely natural thing. It doesn't mean you have an irrational hatred of anyone....which is what a racist is.

Racist is getting seriously overused, to the point where if you don't simply welcome everything happening, you become a racist.

Infact, some of those most pro-immigration have been noted to live in gated communities.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

It doesn't take long to look in the history books and see how a fledgling Nazi party was able to tap into a relatively small source of discontent (initially) and make great political capital out of it.

The seeds were sown immediately after WW1. A stark reminder that's it's not today we need to worry about. But potentially a date many years ahead.

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

People who don't like foreigners are xenophobes by definition.

Most xenophobes are racists.

I bet that's got you priapic.

Name calling tends to make things worse. It is human nature to kick back and take offence when others take it upon themselves to tell you what you should or shouldn't like.

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

"not liking foreigners" is quite different to "not liking to live around foreigners".

I like wide open spaces. It doesn't mean I want to live in solitary in the said wide open space.

We find communities of certain races in all areas of the country. People naturally gravitate to communities. Doesn't matter if you are black or white, Jew, Armish or Hillbilly or Travellers. Most people tend to gravitate to living in communities and it's an entirely natural thing. It doesn't mean you have an irrational hatred of anyone....which is what a racist is.

Racist is getting seriously overused, to the point where if you don't simply welcome everything happening, you become a racist.

Infact, some of those most pro-immigration have been noted to live in gated communities.

There's a semantic difference between the two, not much more.

Some people don't like living around people that are different to them. Some of us rub along with whoever happens to be around.

I'm not sure what the gated community thing means. Are you suggesting that immigrants don't live in gated communities?

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

Name calling tends to make things worse. It is human nature to kick back and take offence when others take it upon themselves to tell you what you should or shouldn't like.

I'm not saying what you should and shouldn't like. I'm saying that not liking foreigners is a pretty good working definition of racism.

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

There's a semantic difference between the two, not much more.

Some people don't like living around people that are different to them. Some of us rub along with whoever happens to be around.

I'm not sure what the gated community thing means. Are you suggesting that immigrants don't live in gated communities?

No, I am not suggesting that. I am suggesting some of the most liberal, pro immigration people choose to segregate themselves behind gates. Some of the guardian editors etc for example.

As for the difference betwen "not liking someone" and not wishing to live amongst a certain community. There are huge differences. Up and down the country we have areas which tend to cater towards the community around them. There are areas mainly made up of the polish, with whole the shops catering for the polish. There are polish cinemas, polish speaking travel agents, polish speaking estate agents etc etc. I have no problem with this, but I wouldn't choose to live amongst it as it's not relevant to me.

The area not being relevant to me does not mean I dislike the people it IS relevant to.

I doubt many would choose to live in the middle of a traveller camp, as an example. Does that make them racist? Xenophobic? Or does it simply mean that other areas offer them something which is more relevant to them and their lifestyle?

If you can't now take a decision to live somewhere which is relevant to you and your life without being labelled as a racist, all hope is lost.

I don't choose to send my children to a faith school. Does that mean I dislike people of faith? Of course not. It just means it's not relevant to me. I don't choose to send them to a free school. Do I dislike free thinking schools? No. It's simply not my preference and therefore isn't relevant to me.

But by your suggestion I appear to hate all of these people as I am actively deciding that these things are not for me and don't cater for me.

No one, as far as I'm aware would decide not to live on a street because somewhere on the street a polish family has residence. However, when the whole community changes around you, you may think about moving somewhere that better reflects your lifestyle.

If your argument is that you think UKIP supporters would move because an immigrant moved in 4 doors up from them, then I would have to say it's an extremely poor argument. Most people live in a society with people from different backgrounds. But the whole community changing is something quite different.