The rise of Extremism in Economically tough times

GeorgeHowell

setmefree2 wrote: »

Or a load of racists.....

"All immigrants are ethnically inferior."

"All UKIP voters are racists."


See there's a pattern there ?

CLAPTON

setmefree2 wrote: »

The lie is that you will be better off if the immigrants go home/don't come.

You won't - you will be worse off.

Imagine. The USA had 3 million inhabitants in 1787 when they kicked out the Brits. Now they have 313 million inhabitants. Do you think they would be the country that they are if they had remained a country with a population of 3 million?

the USA didn't kick out the Brit in 1787: it was a war between the brits and the brits

if your best argument for massive immigration into a relatively small but already well populated country, is the development of the almost empty North America of 1787 then it shows you really are out any rational coherent arguments.

Bantex_2

setmefree2 wrote: »

The lie is that you will be better off if the immigrants go home/don't come.

You won't - you will be worse off.

Imagine. The USA had 3 million inhabitants in 1787 when they kicked out the Brits. Now they have 313 million inhabitants. Do you think they would be the country that they are if they had remained a country with a population of 3 million?

Errr, don't think the people that were there before the Europeans arrived would see it that way.

antrobus

setmefree2 wrote: »

....Imagine. The USA had 3 million inhabitants in 1787 when they kicked out the Brits. Now they have 313 million inhabitants. ...

The Brits were kicked out in 1782. That was when the war ended. The significance of 1787 is that is when the Constitutional Convention began its deliberations, and the US constitution was born. There may well have been 3 million ciizens of this newly formed USA at that time, but there would also have been a few million inhabitants outside its borders, who didn't realise at the time that they were about to be dispossessed, and forcibly incorporated within this new nation state. Don't they count?

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

And this is the point that any reasoned discussion trying to look at how it actually effects people, ends.

Everyone has a personal opinion. Everyone feels effects differently. Those differing to yours have not been "sucked into a lie". It just appears an easy way for you to assume you are right and write off any other opinion or reasoning.

Same as labelling people as racists should they have a differing opinion to yours.

Not really, you're juet labelling me as being unreasonable.

My point is very straightforward. Just because someone thinks they can't get a job because of immigration, doesn't make them right.

People hold all sorts of erroneous personal opinions.

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

....People hold all sorts of erroneous personal opinions.

As supporting evidence, I cite the MSE forum.

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

Not really, you're juet labelling me as being unreasonable.

My point is very straightforward. Just because someone thinks they can't get a job because of immigration, doesn't make them right.

People hold all sorts of erroneous personal opinions.

As I said, it's more than just jobs. Many people find their local community changing. They find they can't get school places. They find jobs pay less and less.

Its a combination of many things.

And suggesting that everyone else is wrong simply because immigration increases GDP levels, is rather unreasonable. As I said, the illegal drugs industry adds to GDP....doesn't mean it's good for us all.

kabayiri

As a general rule, going back over a few hundred years, mankind has been able to do more with fewer resources due to technological progress.


We seem to be arguing now that sheer volumes of people (an argument for mass economic migration) are the only solution to our future challenges.


So why have we given up on becoming smarter in the way we go about using manpower resource?


This may sound a little harsh, but why don't we try and attract fewer economic migrants but wealthier ones? A single Bill Gates type would bring in more tax revenue than several thousand Eastern European farm labourers.


(For the benefit of Hamish, this my roundabout way of arguing for more robots .... sorry it's a bit late Hamish!)

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

As I said, it's more than just jobs. Many people find their local community changing. They find they can't get school places. They find jobs pay less and less.

Its a combination of many things.

Can it be measured or do we just have to accept the word of someone who is in touch with the people?

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Can it be measured or do we just have to accept the word of someone who is in touch with the people?

It can be measured yes. It just has been, at the ballot box....which is what this thread is about.