The rise of Extremism in Economically tough times

Sampong

antrobus wrote: »

Oh no! We're not going there again are we? We're not going to have another 'UKIP are fascists' thread complete with people posting links to sundry opinion pieces in the Guardian and the likes and citing them as 'evidence' are we?

It will only mean that the thread will get shifted to DT when the forum team have finished enjoying their bank holiday.

I suspect we ARE going to see another one of those threads.

It demonstrates that they just don't get it.....

nashly

vivatifosi wrote: »

I would not classify UKIP as extremist George, even if I don't like them and wouldn't vote for them. However Golden Dawn and Front National I absolutely would and they are part of the same lurch away from the centre.

In this country, I'd consider the EDL and BNP as extremist.

Do you not consider the UAF and Islamists as extremists then that reside in the UK ?

GeorgeHowell

wotsthat wrote: »

Of the people I know who voted UKIP (4) all said they didn't like Eastern Europeans and thought the only reason they came to the UK was to sign on and use the NHS. No mention of the EU.

The move to the right during the economic crisis means that weak willed politicians have gone with the flow. Possibly 10 years ago they would have been willing to try and link immigration with having the world's fastest growing developed economy. Not now - if the electorate is simply basing their ideas on misinformation no politician is going to tell them otherwise. Pointing out people's faults is a vote loser.

Having a fast growing economy with the growth based on immigration is not necessarily a good thing, and does not necessarily make the majority better off, or feel better off.

Thrugelmir

nashly wrote: »

I think you have missed the point, WW2 came about because one organisation wanted to control Europe

That's a very simplistic view of European history post the end of WW1. Also it was 2 organisations. As Hitler and Stalin had a pact as to how eastern Europe would be carved up.

Generali

nashly wrote: »

Do you not consider the UAF and Islamists as extremists then that reside in the UK ?

You think all muslims are extremists?:eek:

wotsthat

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Having a fast growing economy with the growth based on immigration is not necessarily a good thing, and does not necessarily make the majority better off, or feel better off.

Possibly but do you see any sensible political debate on the subject?

The move to the right resulting from the GFC makes the debate less likely to happen.

vivatifosi

nashly wrote: »

Do you not consider the UAF and Islamists as extremists then that reside in the UK ?

To make it clear, my view on extremists is that they have views the mainstream would find repugnant. Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada are extremists. Anyone who supports violence as a way of getting what they want is an extremist. Anyone who has extreme and repugnant political views (eg Jean Marie le Pen's statement this week about the ebola virus) is an extremist.

The BNP and EDL are extremists. I'm sure that there are other extremists from the left but I don't know enough about who they are or what they are called. This does not mean that they don't exist.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

vivatifosi wrote: »

The BNP and UDL are extremists.

Speaking of which....

The BNP share of the vote fell from circa 6% last time to circa 1% this time.

No prizes for guessing where they went.

Like I say, the most insidious thing about UKIP is that they provide a smokescreen of legitimacy to cover up the repugnant viewpoints of so many of their voters and supporters.

vivatifosi

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

But what do you want them to come across as Viva?

They do know better, and they are right, and the evidence overwhelmingly supports this.

How exactly are intelligent and rational people supposed to act when presented with barely disguised racism, bigotry and xenophobia and illogical, emotive and factually incorrect views?

As others have said Hamish, people can have concerns about immigration without being racist.

Painting people as extremist or ignorant or knowing less will alienate them even more. What politicians really need to do is get out, find out why people feel alienated, why they voted UKIP, what is going on with their lives, and identify ways in which they can support them to feel less alienated. Instead they are getting a bunch of platitudes from a political class who doesn't have a clue what it is like to walk a mile in their shoes. The irony is that the popular politicians such as Farage and Boris wouldn't have a clue how to walk a mile in their shoes either.

Over the summer instead of taking a long break, every MP should spend time with their constituents, find out the concerns and their parties should hold then collate the results and work out how to win them back. What is it they really want? Calling them stupid is not how to win them back.

I say that as someone who wants to remain part of the EU and would never vote UKIP. Equally there are extremist parties (Golden Dawn and Front National to name two) who are coming to the fore and that is even more concerning for Europe.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Speaking of which....

The BNP share of the vote fell from circa 6% last time to circa 1% this time.

No prizes for guessing where they went.

Like I say, the most insidious thing about UKIP is that they provide a smokescreen of legitimacy to cover up the repugnant viewpoints of so many of their voters and supporters.

the most insidious thing about the 'main stream' parties is they provide a smokescreen of legitimacy by refusing to discuss the real EU issues and accuse all opponents of being racists.