Faulty Camera. Want a refund but they say RMA only.

analog

Hello everyone,

This may get a bit technical but here we go. I work for a production company and bought a new cinema camera to shoot a feature film on. We received the camera around 2 months ago, maybe a bit less.

The camera has a sensor fault whereby large horizontal lines of noise run through black areas of the image, even when the scene is lit and exposed correctly.

This issue is product wide and a quick look on the manufacturers forum shows huge threads with everyone having the same issue, some more severe than others.

Our camera is on the severe end of things.

We would like to return the camera for a refund or store credit but the seller says we must RMA to the manufacturer and only after that can we pursue a refund.

That would usually be fine but the problem is product wide. Everyone who has done an RMA receives cameras back with the same issue. The company has stated that they are aware of the issue and they will release an update to fix the issue. Most people agree that this is very unlikely and the problem is with the type of sensor they chose for the camera.

I'm not hugely clued up about laws and the sales of goods act etc and would like some advice.

Here are the key points:

- Camera purchased 2 months ago
- Severe sensor issues are present
- The issue is product wide
- The issue cannot be fixed by the manufacturer (although they may say they can)
- Reseller says we must RMA the camera and it can't be returned to them as it's classed as 'unwanted or unused'.

The reason that we have kept the camera so long is that it wasn't a quick process to realise the fault. We assumed it was just a learning curve but all the camera forums and the manufacturers forums have erupted in angry customers.

What is the law regarding this? We have our feature production all booked for the end of July and do not have time to waste on a pointless RMA.

What rights do I have as a consumer with this issue? I understand it's unique as usually an RMA would be fine but the issue is product wide and can't be fixed at this time.

Many thanks!

Al.

wealdroam

Firstly, any statutory rights you may have are with whoever sold the thing to you... not the manufacturer.

Secondly, did you buy this as a consumer or a business?
This question is important, because if you made the purchase as a business, then consumer protection legislation won't be much help.

bris

Its a B2B transaction so consumer rights don't apply, even if they did they have the right to fix it so it wouldn't alter anything anyway.

It's no ones fault but your own that you don't have a back up in case of problems, do you think filming on X-men would be stopped because of a faulty camera?

analog

The camera was bought as a consumer by an individual.

@bris

Obviously I do have other cameras to shoot on. Please don't compare an independent micro-budget feature to a multi-million dollar Hollywood blockbuster.

More to the point do I have any consumer rights in this case?

photome

bris wrote: »

Its a B2B transaction so consumer rights don't apply, even if they did they have the right to fix it so it wouldn't alter anything anyway.

It's no ones fault but your own that you don't have a back up in case of problems, do you think filming on X-men would be stopped because of a faulty camera?

Strange thing to post.

Do you have a back up of everything you buy.

Hintza

photome wrote: »

Strange thing to post.

Do you have a back up of everything you buy.

If you are buying as business then it would be prudent to have a back-up.

It also doesn't matter whether it is a micro budget film or big budget it is still not for home/individual/family/consumer use.

The best way forward is to send it off as requested and if it still comes back broken and it's use are covered by the terms of the warranty then the OP might have a claim. They need to be at least given time to investigate the problem. You don't know whether they have all been returned unfixed that is just here say.

peachyprice

analog wrote: »

I work for a production company and bought a new cinema camera to shoot a feature film on.

We received the camera around 2 months ago, maybe a bit less.

The reason that we have kept the camera so long is that it wasn't a quick process to realise the fault. We assumed it was just a learning curve but all the camera forums and the manufacturers forums have erupted in angry customers.

We have our feature production all booked for the end of July and do not have time to waste on a pointless RMA.

What rights do I have as a consumer with this issue?

With the facts as you've presented them you'll be hard pressed to claim this was a consumer purchase. YOU may have bought the camera on behalf of a business, but it's clearly for business use.

wealdroam

analog wrote: »

The camera was bought as a consumer by an individual.

...do I have any consumer rights in this case?

Yes.

If the purchase was made as a consumer,then it might be worth you reading MSE's Consumer Rights guide.

In there you will find:

Know who's responsible

When returning items, beware shops trying the oldest trick in the book: saying they're not responsible for the shoddy goods and you must call the manufacturer. This is total nonsense!

If a company fobs you off by saying “go to the maker instead”, it's wrong. It's the retailer's job to sort it.

It doesn't matter if it's an iPod from a high street shop or a designer frock from a department store. If something's broken, torn, ripped or faulty, the seller has a legal duty to put it right as your contract is with it.

Another pertinent quote from that article is:

When goods are faulty, if you return them within six months, then it's up to the shop to prove they weren't faulty when you bought them. After this, the burden of proof shifts and it's up to you to prove they were faulty when you bought them.

I have to say that I am struggling to see this as a consumer purchase.

analog

Sorry let me clarify. The production company is a group of individuals who are self-financing a feature length film. We are essentially just a group of friends and there is no business set up.

The camera was ordered by one of us long before we all met and decided to work on a film together. I and another member do freelance corporate work as a living but the person who pre-ordered the camera is just a hobbyist.

I'm used to writing in a certain way to make things seem a bit bigger than they are. Even though I work mostly solo doing corporate video work I often use 'we' when talking about my business for example.

Here is the list of events:

- Mr.X per-orders 6 months ago as a consumer / hobbyist
- Mr.X and others meet 4 months ago and decide to make a film
- Mr.X receives camera 2 months ago
- The camera is faulty.

While the camera isn't mine I'm trying to help the person who bought it as they aren't technically savvy with cameras or speaking to companies formally.

Sorry if this is all a bit confusing!

paddyrg

analog wrote: »

Sorry let me clarify. The production company is a group of individuals who are self-financing a feature length film. We are essentially just a group of friends and there is no business set up.

The camera was ordered by one of us long before we all met and decided to work on a film together. I and another member do freelance corporate work as a living but the person who pre-ordered the camera is just a hobbyist.

I'm used to writing in a certain way to make things seem a bit bigger than they are. Even though I work mostly solo doing corporate video work I often use 'we' when talking about my business for example.

Here is the list of events:

- Mr.X per-orders 6 months ago as a consumer / hobbyist
- Mr.X and others meet 4 months ago and decide to make a film
- Mr.X receives camera 2 months ago
- The camera is faulty.

While the camera isn't mine I'm trying to help the person who bought it as they aren't technically savvy with cameras or speaking to companies formally.

Sorry if this is all a bit confusing!

Alas you may have just discovered why productions generally hire kit - you can get a replacement if there's a problem!

Depending on what the camera is, it may be harder to present it as a consumer rights issue. For instance an Arri Alexa isn't really a consumer camera as it realistically takes a small team to use one effectively, focus it, etc.

I would be pressing the manufacturer for a repair - it may be a firmware update, it may be a rebuild, but if it's a respectable brand they will probably want to remedy the problem pronto or kill the company's reputation - for instance Panavision have to maintain their reputation for quality and would (if they sold cameras) do anything to fix up anything that would force people onto Sony/Arri etc.

Who's the manufacturer, what's the model? Just useful to know! You can PM if you're worried for any reason :-)

bris

analog wrote: »

More to the point do I have any consumer rights in this case?

No you don't, it was a camera used for commercial purposes by a production company, consumer rights do not apply.

In case you haven't been paying attention, they have the right to repair it anyway, even in the off chance that you could be classed as consumer so it's all really a mute point. A refund was never on the table consumer or not.