Euro Car Parks - PCN. What next? (WON!)

harni2013

Hi Guys.
Right I'm a bit confused as what steps to take next as this isn't a standard appeal, win situation.

17/10/13 - I overstayed the free parking in a carpark monitored by ECP by 14 minutes.
1/11/13 - PCN sent to the lease manager of the car and passed on to me. I instructed them not to pay the £90 "fine".
9/12/13 - NTK sent to lease company complaining that the bill was not paid and there is now no discount. Again, i instructed the lease company not to pay.
14/1/14 - Debt recovery plus Ltd contacted the lease company with a demand to pay £150. Again i instructed the lease company not to pay and contacted ECP my self via email to let them know i was in charge of the car at the time of the "offence" and to forward all letters to me from now on instead of the lease company. I received an acknowledgement of my email and that it would be passed to the relevant department to deal with but no reply confirming they would contact me from now on.
21/5/14 - Debt recovery plus contacted the Lease company offering a reduced payment of £120 before 2/6/14 otherwise they will start court proceedings. I contacted ECP again informing them again that i was the driver at the time and that they should contact me. I also asked for proof of calibration of the ANPR equipment, a justification that the charge is correct to the anticipated losses of the land owner and written confirmation that they are instructed to manage the parking on the site. I also asked for a POPLA code if they can not provide these details.
They have emailed back today ignoring my request for a POPLA code and have provided excuses as to why they don't have to provide any of the information i requested.

Ive cocked up here. I realise i should of appealed from the start however i was not aware of the new laws and was under the impression that ignoring it was still the done thing. This obviously is not the case.
Where do i stand now? I can't have them contacting the lease company and i can't have them threatening legal action to them as they will just pay the fine and charge it to me. What moves can i take next?

Thanks guys!

harni2013

Sorry forgot to say as well, they are refusing to stop pursuing the lease company now so i do need to stop this!

Umkomaas

It should have been the lease company (registered keeper) writing to ECP giving them your name and 'address for service', thus discharging any liability they might have had under PoFA 2012.

It seems the lease company is ignoring them, and, short of paying them, that's pretty much all that's open to you.

I presume you managed to head off the lease company from paying, charging your credit card and adding a fat 'handling charge' by the letters you've sent them. Keep copies as should they subsequently do this, you have the proof that you specifically instructed them not to and forward everything relating to this charge to you.

I suppose now it's a question of seeing the next move from the debt collectors (they are powerless in this situation) or by ECP, who have no real track record of 'doing court' (twice only, and this does not mean they actually went to court, probably just served [scare] papers) as the following FOIs show.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/179544/response/444525/attach/3/A%20FINAL%20REPLY%20TO%20LEWIS%2085865.doc
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/205660/response/510306/attach/3/AA%20REPLY%20TO%20Craig%20Lewis%2090006%203.doc

The NEWBIES sticky (top of the forum index) gives advice on handling debt collectors.

If you do get court papers DO NOT ignore these, but come back for more advice then.

harni2013

Hi Umkomaas
Thanks for your reply. The first letter was passed to me from the lease company by post and i replied by post to say i am happy for them to give ECP my details however the lease company never received my letter. All i have as evidence that i asked for my details to be passed on is a email to a manager at work who is involved in the "case". All other letters and communications have been sent via email so i have records of all of these.

I have now also sent the store at the site a email complaining that i am not happy that i was a genuine customer and have been fined although i feel this route may be a bit too late?

Umkomaas

Yep, good idea to tackle this from 'the other side' by complaining to the retailer. Often, if they are the contracting party with ECP, they have a clause allowing them to cancel. However it may be a managing agent who has contracted ECP, so you may have to do a bit more digging to find out who they are, then you can complain to them.

harni2013

Thanks.
On another note, they included this in their email;

The time line for this parking charge notice commenced 29/10/2013, and therefore when passed to debt recovery plus, it was out of the time line for:-prompt payment, POPLA or to confirm a serviceable address of the driver of the vehicle.
Therefore the debt is with *****, the registered keeper has advised who is responsible for the vehicle and Debt Recovery Plus will continue to request payment for the parking charge notice and associated fees but have noted your interest

Is this correct? Also, i noticed this in the BPA COP;

23.5 After serving the Notice to Driver
There may be occasions when you issued a parking charge notice and handed it to the driver or attached it to the vehicle, and you know the driver’s name and current address. If so, you should pursue your claim for payment against the driver, not the keeper, if the driver fails to pay.

Bearing in mind i have independently approached them twice now giving my full name and address, surely they have to abide by this.

Thanks

Umkomaas

They seem hell bent on pursuing the lease company. You have done your best to divert things your way. The lease company should be clued up on dealing with parking charges and penalties. I don't think you can do much more.

Make sure you keep the evidence that you've sent to the lease company ...... and let them get on with dealing with ECP.

I wouldn't worry too much about the BPA CoP at the moment, PPCs ignore the bits that don't suit them and the BPA appear not to take them to task over non-compliance.

Is the lease company a nationally recognised one? No need to give specific details.

harni2013

Yes the lease company are probably in the top 5 biggest in the country. My work have a massive contract with them so we have our own dedicated contract manager at the lease company and she is dealing with this. She seems very compliant with me when asking not to pay the bill but seeing as they named my company as the driver and its now outside of ECPs 28 day 'name and shame' period, they seem to want to chase my company (via the lease company) instead of my self despite me owning up to driving at the time. My company are very concerned that ECP will take legal action against them so i don't want them to pay up just to keep them at bay.

Ive had a email back from the stores customer services team and am to expect a call from the store in questions manager tomorrow with a resolution so we will see how that goes!

Umkomaas

Keep us posted. If you've looked at the FOI links the prospect of ECP issuing court papers are not high, but no guarantee of future performance!

harni2013

I have mate and am happy to take them odds but the problem is getting it into my hands! I reckon my company will just keep refer in it to me like the lease company do when they start threatening legal action in which case i will use it as toilet paper and post it back to them

captainhindsight_2

The best solution would be to pay the fine for overstaying the agreed amount of time

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