driving slow : your views ?

NBLondon

Cornucopia wrote: »

We're still confusing two different scenarios in Motorway driving.

2) Slow overtaking where someone is legitimately in an outer (overtaking) lane, but isn't making the kind of progress that people stuck behind them would wish them to.

(2) splits further into (a) those slower drivers who are already at the limit for their vehicle on that road, and (b) others.

I have no issue with 2(a) whatsoever, and anyone who harasses them ought to face punishment.

2(b) is a question merely of courtesy, and I have suggested that people should give due consideration to speeding up temporarily to the limit for their vehicle on that road.

Can I suggest we also need to consider 2(c) those who decide that they have now reached 68mph and therefore should move into the next lane to overtake the 65 mph vehicle ahead without looking for anyone already in that lane at 70mph+

As Iceweasel points out - it isn't always easy to find a gap to pull out:

Iceweasel wrote: »

I normally drive in the leftmost lane except when overtaking and often have trouble entering lane 3 because of the folks doing 80mph plus who are not prepared to slow down for someone doing 70mph to overtake the middle lane hoggers and those who wish to drive at less than 70mph.

but it seems that some are operating on the principle of "anybody coming up behind me is speeding and therefore I don't have to consider them" or more worryingly "I'm indicating therefore I can change lanes"

Cornucopia

NBLondon wrote: »

Can I suggest we also need to consider 2(c) those who decide that they have now reached 68mph and therefore should move into the next lane to overtake the 65 mph vehicle ahead without looking for anyone already in that lane at 70mph+

Hmmm... I think that those who move out without any observation are a tiny, tiny number.

As Iceweasel points out - it isn't always easy to find a gap to pull out:

Indeed, but that encourages people to stay in the overtaking lanes longer than they might otherwise do. I have a bad habit of returning to inner lanes to let people pass, and then getting stuck between someone slower in my lane ahead and faster moving traffic in the outer lanes.

but it seems that some are operating on the principle of "anybody coming up behind me is speeding and therefore I don't have to consider them"

I don't think it's a question of not considering - but are you supposed to do? You want to make an overtaking maneouvre within the law, but are prevented from doing so by someone who is breaking the law... I don't think so. Once safety has been accounted for, someone's excess speed over the limit is their problem, not mine.

or more worryingly "I'm indicating therefore I can change lanes"

Or enter from a slip-road?

NBLondon

Cornucopia wrote: »

Hmmm... I think that those who move out without any observation are a tiny, tiny number.

I drove up the A1 and A1(M) from Cambs to Yorks the other weekend and saw plenty. OK - I can't tell whether they didn't look or looked and decided to go anyway...

Cornucopia wrote: »

Indeed, but that encourages people to stay in the overtaking lanes longer than they might otherwise do. I have a bad habit of returning to inner lanes to let people pass, and then getting stuck between someone slower in my lane ahead and faster moving traffic in the outer lanes.

Yep - it does. On a busy 2-lane stretch it sometimes looks like a choice of 56.3mph in Lane 1 and 80mph in Lane 2 or continually dodging between the 2. I would much prefer to set the cruise control on 72 and read the road ahead.

Cornucopia wrote: »

I don't think it's a question of not considering - but are you supposed to do? You want to make an overtaking maneouvre within the law, but are prevented from doing so by someone who is breaking the law... I don't think so. Once safety has been accounted for, someone's excess speed over the limit is their problem, not mine.

Pulling out into an overtaking lane in front of a faster moving car obliges you to judge whether you can complete the manoeuvre without impeding them. The same applies even if both are doing legal speeds e.g. LGV (X) doing 56mph on limiter, cautious driver (Y) who wants to overtake at 62mph should not dive in front of bolder driver (Z) already overtaking at 69mph.

If Z is reading the road, then they may well ease off a little to allow Y to overtake.

If Y intends to make Z brake (or doesn't care) they are no less dangerous whatever Z's speed.

Cornucopia wrote: »

Or enter from a slip-road?

Absolutely my foxy friend That's one of my ongoing hates - the driver who apparently thinks "I'm at the end of the sliproad with my indicator on so I can merge whenever I like and the traffic will move over for me".

almillar

Cornucopia:

You're assuming that the only reason why someone would be driving below the speed limit is lack of ability/confidence - that's not the case.

Many valid reasons - your vehicle isn't capable, you're transporting a fish tank etc, but 'because I feel like it' or 'to save fuel' aren't valid reasons if you're causing queues.

Are all the speed freaks young (men)?

Your definition of speed freak being someone that wants to drive at the speed limit?

NBLondon makes a good point about those who choose to do just below the speed limit, they may find it difficult to find a gap to pull out into to get past that lorry that's going slighly slower than them. They OFTEN (not a tiny tiny number) DO pull out in my experience. What they should do of course, is slow down a bit. Hey, it'll save them even more fuel! The problem with people in all lanes, and in so much of driving, is an unwillingness to CHANGE speed or CHANGE lane. Ever see these people who are trying to merge, and they magically are able to sit right beside you matching your speed precisely, waiting for you to do something? The onus is on them to find the gap. Speed up, or slow down, doesn't matter what, to do the merge, but they just can't manage it!

Cornucopia

I don't know. In my experience there isn't much left in terms of traffic conditions on major roads between free-flowing and congested. Therefore the opportunity to "cause" queues must be fairly limited.

In other words, there isn't enough road space for everyone to do a different speed to their own preference... unless there is.

I accept that some drivers appear to exhibit lack of skill/common sense in some situations. However, since we (as a bunch of experienced drivers) can't even agree on the "rules", I wouldn't necessarily judge them that harshly.

UsernameAlreadyExists

Even if doing 70 in the outside lane, most people would make an effort to get out of the way for a Police car that has flashing lights, sirens on, and horn blazing.


Why won't they get of of the way for some fat salesman in a flashy Merc flashing and beeping? What's the difference? A Traffic car is no more allowed to travel at more than 70 than anyone else.

Iceweasel

IanMSpencer wrote: »

German motorways work pretty much like UK ones except that sometimes you are on long distance ones without so much traffic. Drive nearer the larger cities and you see exactly the same sort of behaviours with some extra bizarre lane switching, especially with the sharp exits that many sliproads still have.

Yes - I have to agree with that - around 'going home time' it doesn't matter where in the world you are there are folks whose sole aim is to get home asap, and woe betide anyone or anything that is in their chosen path.

The world's worst in my experience is Lille - where folks go home for an extended lunch - that kind of rush home and back again added to the urban motorway having exits to both right and left makes Lille at rush hour seem like a dodgem track.

Best avoided if possible.

nobbysn*ts

NBLondon wrote: »

IPulling out into an overtaking lane in front of a faster moving car obliges you to judge whether you can complete the manoeuvre without impeding them. The same applies even if both are doing legal speeds e.g. LGV (X) doing 56mph on limiter, cautious driver (Y) who wants to overtake at 62mph should not dive in front of bolder driver (Z) already overtaking at 69mph.

If Z is reading the road, then they may well ease off a little to allow Y to overtake.

Think you hit the nail on the head, as already quoted - "Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you." - Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass, any driver, trying to pass any car, not specifically one trying to pass you. So if you're illegally speeding, and preventing them pulling out at a legal speed, what you should do instead, is drop back, maintain the two second gap, and let them proceed at their pace. Any if Z is speeding, and overtaking. I'd hope they're watching the road ahead, and not drifting blindly along in the overtaking lane just because they think they're the fastest, so they don't need to consider moving back in.

UsernameAlreadyExists

That entire section you quoted is relating to being overtaken. It's Rule 144.

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass, any driver, trying to pass any car, not specifically one trying to pass you.

What rule/guideline is that?

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

So if you're illegally speeding, and preventing them pulling out at a legal speed, what you should do instead, is drop back, maintain the two second gap, and let them proceed at their pace.

You're just making stuff up now. The people that want to overtake should be following rules 138, 139, 140( if large vehicle), 141, 142 and adhering to the also previously quoted 143 which includes "DO NOT overtake ... when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down "

BillJones

Cornucopia wrote: »

Not just in France. The new slip-road from M25(s) to A2(e) at Dartford has a fairly normal motorway slip-road curve to it, with excellent visibility. The prevailing speed limit of 60 is perfectly safe for the curve. However there is a additional hazard sign with a "Maximum speed 40" notice on it... which all car drivers ignore.

Advisory low limits on tight slip roads are really annoying. I used to commute from Herts into East London, and so would daily come off the M25 onto the M11, where there was something like a 40mph advisory as it tightened. When driving my bog-standard saloon, it was steady as a rock at 70. In my Elise, it was fine at 100. I have no idea who the target driver was and in which supposed vehicle for 40 to be advised, but the only real effect of it would be to convince people that the road engineers were having a laugh.