My dog bit me...

cheekymole

Ixwood,
thanks for your comments but you you are making it sound as though I haven't got a clue what I am doing.
I am training the dog the Guide Dog way as that is how he started. He understands commands very well but chooses to ignore them when he wants to.
My OH gave him a gentle shove on the backside (which is far less uncomfortable for him than I see some people tugging on their dogs leads etc )to encourage him to leave the room after the command "out" was ignored several times.
Your last comment above about taking bones etc off your dog, praising him and giving them back is exactly what I am doing, even when he accidentally sunk his tooth in, he was praised and given the bone back because he did leave it as I had asked him to.
All I am trying to do is make him aware and understand that he can give things away and WILL get them back and yes I do the exchange for better things too
So again thank you for your comments and as for example of giving him something better a few times and then he'll understand, that's exactly when he first bit me a few months ago!

Eels100

cheekymole wrote: »

My OH gave him a gentle shove on the backside (which is far less uncomfortable for him than I see some people tugging on their dogs leads etc )to encourage him to leave the room after the command "out" was ignored several times.

This is really interesting. My OH got a really nasty bite from one of our dogs a couple of years ago. The dog had been told by OH to go out several times, but wouldn't. When OH tried to shove him out the door he was left with several nice deep wounds on his hand and a very panicky dog.

After patching OH up I had a think about the situation. In my dog's case he's fear aggressive and we were at that time fostering a boisterous young dog (long story, nightmare scenario, didn't have a huge amount of choice at the end of the day, dog now gone to happy home, phew!) who picked on my poor lad. When out in the garden he would get chased and bullied and so was frightened to go out - OH took his reluctance to go out and growling when shouted at as 'badness' :wall: so decided to try and force the poor dog outside.

We've completely solved this problem (well, we thankfully got the pup homed for a start!) by retraining my OH . Now if we want the dogs to go outside we ask them nicely. Sing-song voices, lots of praise for doing as asked, reinforcing things with the clicker - lots of nice positive encouragement. Now our wee lad has relearned that going outside for a pee is not scary and will not be forced upon him. If he is ever reluctant I put my shoes on and go with him (not really a major hardship). And no need for any of this "I'm the alpha here so if you don't do as I ask I'll force you into it, therefore making you even less trusting of me, more fearful in general and more likely to bite". It was simply a matter of confidence building (whereas OH had interpreted his signals as 'I won't do it because I don't feel like it, so up yours', the dog was actually saying 'don't force me to do this, I find it frightening and I am insecure').

Out of interest, do you think your dog may be slightly fear aggressive? Does he growl when he's uncomfortable, does he show aggression when he perceives a threat of some sort? I ask because despite their image as soft doughnuts, any Labs I know which might be described as 'aggressive' are often actually fear aggressive. When you meet them they are often fearful of new surroundings, panicky if cornered, cower or growl when touched by strangers, run wide circles and go behind their owners when meeting other dogs, that sort of thing. I might be way off the mark but the situation you describe was exactly like mine and so I wonder if your dog was frightened of something.

Shambler

I'll just put in my 2p's worth, sorry if it's been suggested already but here's some tips for everyone reading this thread.

From the OP posts I can tell they are on the right approach and here's a list of things I picked up over the years of dog ownership designed to stop a dog reaching the alpha position in your pack and remove it from alpha if it is already there

Never greet the dog when you get home, always wait for it to sit quietly before giving it any attention.

Never feed the dog before you eat, always let the dog see you eat first and feed it after.

If the dog insists on being aggressive with it's food you can

1) The next time you feed it, scatter the food all over the floor ( hopefully lino ), it isnt possible to protect all of this food and eat
(if it is possesive of toys you can do the same thing with lots of tennis balls).

2) Train the dog to 'Leave it!'...this worked really well with my GSD, put some treat on the floor and give the command including 'Sit!'. When the dog is sitting praise it and give it the treat.

3) Once 'Leave it!' is working do the same with the dogs full dinner bowl, once trained I could stop my GSD from wolfing his food down

A bite is often forseeable, if you give a command to the dog and he keeps ignoring you then start to approach him.

If he does not move away or if he doesn't go onto his back (sub dominant pose) then it is possible he is frightened and any physical contact made to the dog may result in a bite reaction.

When this happens, back off and using a high pitched voice encourage the dog to come to you to try and defuse the situation, use a toy or treat.

I can recommend the RSPCA dog training guide by Bruce Fogle ( Ben Fogle's Dad) as an excellent guide for training a dog and for problem behaviour.

Curious_George_2

I have to say when i posted on the first page i had NO idea you had been bitten while trying to remove a bone from your dogs mouth!!!
frankly im not surprised you got a nip.
most dogs would at least growl at you in that situation and if you continue to try and get its most prized of treats away from it then YOU ARE GOING TO GET BITTEN!
i would have thought this was common sense really! why were you even trying to take the bone?

our dogs didnt get bones too often as it was the only time they would get sneaky and aggressive, and i have to say that none of us were silly enough to try and take the bone away, particularly not when in was in the animals mouth!!!!

davsidipp

im sorry curious george but i diagree with not being able to take a bone of a dog,i have two jrt who frequently have bones but we can still take them off them no problem they learnt from an early age they would always get them back as i could not risk a small child going near them thinking they would snap at them ive been their before and would not tolerate a dog biting again as in my eyes their an animal.

cheekymole

Thanks davsidipp, I completely agree.
My last Lab would give me anything and NEVER growled or showed his teeth for any reason whatsoever.
They obviously all have different characters but as davsidipp has stated you need to be able to take things off them. Mine will find anything and everything on walks some of which could be detremental to his health therefore I need to be able to remove them from him or at least get him to leave otherwise a hefty vet bill will be payable

walwin

Curious_George wrote: »

I have to say when i posted on the first page i had NO idea you had been bitten while trying to remove a bone from your dogs mouth!!!
frankly im not surprised you got a nip.
most dogs would at least growl at you in that situation and if you continue to try and get its most prized of treats away from it then YOU ARE GOING TO GET BITTEN!
i would have thought this was common sense really! why were you even trying to take the bone?

our dogs didnt get bones too often as it was the only time they would get sneaky and aggressive, and i have to say that none of us were silly enough to try and take the bone away, particularly not when in was in the animals mouth!!!!

I really have to disagree with you here Curious George.

I worked with our dog in a gentle way to get her to give me her bones, chewies, etc.
Not so that children could go near her when she had a bone, we don't have children and I wouldn't give her a bone if children were visiting, it could be asking for trouble, but so that if she ever picked up anything when we were out she would leave on command.

I've always been able to get bones from all of my dogs without an argument or a growl.

candygirl

This question has probably been asked.Is he neutered?my old lab showed similar sporadic guarding aggression, and after he had the snip he was fine.Also if he has recently been jabbed he might be a bit under the weather.Can't add much to all the other brill advice given here.Hope things improve for you:o

ixwood

cheekymole wrote: »

Ixwood,
Your last comment above about taking bones etc off your dog, praising him and giving them back is exactly what I am doing, even when he accidentally sunk his tooth in, he was praised and given the bone back because he did leave it as I had asked him to.
All I am trying to do is make him aware and understand that he can give things away and WILL get them back and yes I do the exchange for better things too
So again thank you for your comments and as for example of giving him something better a few times and then he'll understand, that's exactly when he first bit me a few months ago!

Sorry, but where did I say ignore all warning growls and physically try and force his mouth open?

It sounds like you were trying your hardest to get bitten to be honest. What did you expect him to do?

mizmir

cheekymole wrote: »

Thanks davsidipp, I completely agree.
My last Lab would give me anything and NEVER growled or showed his teeth for any reason whatsoever.
They obviously all have different characters but as davsidipp has stated you need to be able to take things off them. Mine will find anything and everything on walks some of which could be detremental to his health therefore I need to be able to remove them from him or at least get him to leave otherwise a hefty vet bill will be payable

I think the distinction here is between trying to take and the dog learning to give up - two very different things. Absolutely agree that it is wise to teach all dogs that giving up things of value (whether toys, bones or dead things they find out on walks!) is worth doing - and you can teach that as has been said by playing swap and always giving something much better. But that is different from forcing an unwilling dog to give something up. This is a dangerous thing to do - if the dog hasn't learned the swap lesson well enough then you are placing yourself in a confrontational situation. In such a situation distractions often work (make them think you don't care about what they have and make a big play about something much better happening somewhere else - other dogs help here - they can be getting something fab. Dog often leaves its prize and comes to investigate). Physically putting hands in a dog's mouth is risky.

Getting some first hand help in this situation is very wise - especially with a child involved. But certainly the situations you mention do not suggest a dog who wants to do damage but one who needs more training in this area.

I was interested that you said your dog knows "leave" but doesn't do it if he has an alternative (ie if he is a space big enough to run off). If you really go for the swap game your dog will want to bring you things because what it gets in return is so rewarding! A friend of mine had a dog that stole socks obsessively. She worked on this with the swap game. That dog recently watched another dog steal a sock, went and took it off that dog and brought it to the owner to get the better reward! Bones of course are hard to top for value but try roast chicken or something and then the bone back!

Good luck.