My dog bit me...

Curious_George_2

cheekymole wrote: »

I think also that if I tell anybody in authority they could order him to be put to sleep which is the last thing I want to happen, therefore I would prefer to try to manage the problem anonymously

while i understand this because obviously you all love your dog,
wouldnt you rather your dog was put to sleep now than have to live with the guilt if it scarred your daughter (or anyone else) for life?

I know your going to get defensive over this (and in your shoes i probably would too, i grew up with big dogs that people would cross the street to avoid even though they wouldnt hurt a fly)
but dont think for a second that those dogs that get in the news for killing / maiming children never showed any aggression before,
for instance... that dog last christmas didnt just turn on that toddler one day and shake her around like a rag doll.... it had been a menace for a long time, im sure its owners thought there was something could be done....
too late now, for the dog and the little girl,

I couldnt have a dog who thought it was the alpha male in my house, kids or not... they may be loveable pets in our eyes, but they are still unpredictable animals, my mum got terrorised by one of her dogs (a replacement after all our others had died and all us kids had moved out) he used to pin her to the wall growling, he would snap and bark at her all the time but infront of her husband he was puppy of the year.... he had to go before something happened, the husband had never seen anything of what the dog was capable of as far as mum was concerned so it was heartbreaking for him, but he still made the decision to get rid of it.... its human life before the pets everytime im afraid.

cheekymole

We have always had a dog and this is the first one we've had a problem with. I am not soft with him and never have been but that is my main concern if he bites someone else as you say, sleepmy, there would be no turning back. The way I see it is that he wants to be pack leader and there is no way on this earth that I will allow that to happen. I have isolated tonight although he still has his "creature comforts" and tomorrow the true training will start after reading an article on the net.

Thank you all for the advice and please keep adding to it with your suggestions/opinions

Eels100

OK, first things first. Anyone with a dog bite should get it checked out by a doctor. In most cases they won't give antibiotics but my advice is to request them anyway, and make sure the site is checked regularly for increasing swelling, redness or the appearance of a red 'track' from the wound. As soon as a bite occurs, wash the wound in copious amounts of running water then soak it in a solution of Hibiscrub, Savlon or even salt water for several minutes. Dog bites are extremely dirty, and often involve the hand or fingers of the victim. Infection can thus have serious consequences and it is my experience that health professionals rarely take these wounds as seriously as they ought to, at least until there is evidence of active and therefore dangerous infection. I know of several people who have later had to be hospitalised for surgery or intravenous antibiotics after they were sent home by doctors.

Back to your point about what to do.

First make sure your daughter is not allowed to play or spend time alone with the dog - an adult must always supervise. This is particularly vital at mealtimes, so the dog should be fed separately from the family. You need to take serious precautions until you get to the bottom of this.

Go back to the vet and ask for an examination in the context of aggression. Vaccination checks are looking for general overall health so don't always focus on areas which commonly cause pain. It's unlikely that it's a pain thing given his previous aggressive history but you should have him checked again. The vet will not report him or make you put him to sleep, they will simply give you advice.

My strong suggestion (and it will cost you money) is to find yourself a decent dog behaviour counsellor either by asking your vet or by looking on http://www.apbc.org.uk/. You need to find someone with a non-confrontational, positive approach to training or you will have a fight on your hands with this dog.

There are a few basic things you can do until you have help from a professional (for your dog to be assessed properly you really do need to get a behaviourist to see him - and you - 'in action' at home).
- Give your dog security in the form of a set routine - dinner time, walk time, play time, sleep time. Stick to this firmly, and make sure you include loads of exercise to wear him out. Importantly, he should have his own bed or sleeping area which is completely out-of-bounds for humans. If he goes there, leave him in peace, and make sure your daughter understands this vital rule.
- Make it a rule that when he is fed he can eat in peace, away from the family, and nobody ever disturbs him. Make sure he is taught to sit and wait before you put the bowl down - don't give him it until he has all four paws on the ground.
- Make another rule that nobody ever takes toys from him without offering an exchange, such as an alternative toy or a treat. You can start teaching him the 'leave' command this way without having fights or bites.
- Do some general training, maybe using a clicker, to get his attention onto you and to busy his mind. Basic things like 'sit', 'wait', 'lie down', 'paw', anything else you can think of. It's all like a game for them, especially if you use a clicker.
- Always keep in mind that you need to avoid confrontation. That doesn't mean let him have his own way - it just means that you need to learn to use distraction techniques, and routines, to keep yourself and the dog out of situations in which he is likely to 'argue' with you.
- Please, for your own safety, ensure everyone involved with this dog, particularly yourself and your partner, is aware that trying to 'dominate' the dog or 'show him who's boss' is a recipe for disaster without proper guidance. If you misread his signals or push him too far someone will get hurt. Just work on avoiding the situations which lead to the confrontation.

sleepymy

I would muzzle him to take that power off him asap.

cheekymole

Curious George, thank you, what you have said is totally true and no I won't become defensive because I do agree with you say I'm just not sure I can enforce it.
He goes to his second home in a weeks time until September (there are no children there) and I will phone the Guide Dogs tomorrow for advice.
I had my beloved pooch put to sleep 2 years ago though illness and don't think I could go through that again so I will desperately try to resolve this problem fast.
I do understand your opinion and will isolate him from DD until next week to be on the safe side. Tonight he's in the greenhouse and that's where he's staying.

Curious_George_2

I know what you mean, nobody wants to have to lose a beloved family pet...
but if its a choice between that or the health of my kids then for me there really is no choice,

good luck with whatever you decide

Justie

I agree with everything Eels says

Don't duck the issue because you're worried your dog will be put down - the best way to sort this out once and for all is to seek professional help. Yes you've just been to the vets but you should check him out again as the behaviour has occured since then - it could be something simple that's making him feel under the weather and causing him to lack manners.

Secondly - don't get too hooked on the notion of pack leaders etc. Your dog doesn't read the books so doesn't understand them nor is ruled by that theory - what the dog needs from you is safety and security. Guarding issues are resolveable if the work is put in and if that's his main trigger then there are ways to deal with it but you should be assessed by a professional and not rely on what we say or what you read in a book. It's unusual for a dog you've had from a puppy who hasn't been denied food to show food aggression so it may be that the family as whole needs to look at the behaviours around food and create a new routine. Please don't try to sort this out on your own - there is no benefit to anyone to put a healthy dog down so don't let that stand in the way of you getting help. You must act now to make sure the problem doesn't become a habit and in the meantime keep dog and children seperate and set out any rules and supervise interaction.

cheekymole

Thanks eels for taking the time to post so many positive ideas.

First make sure your daughter is not allowed to play or spend time alone with the dog - an adult must always supervise. This is particularly vital at mealtimes, so the dog should be fed separately from the family. You need to take serious precautions until you get to the bottom of this

I have already imposed strict guidelines to DD and she is very mature and toatlly understands

My strong suggestion (and it will cost you money) is to find yourself a decent dog behaviour counsellor either by asking your vet or by looking on http://www.apbc.org.uk/. You need to find someone with a non-confrontational, positive approach to training or you will have a fight on your hands with this dog.

Thanks for the website, I will take a good look and find the best man/woman for the job

Give your dog security in the form of a set routine - dinner time, walk time, play time, sleep time. Stick to this firmly, and make sure you include loads of exercise to wear him out. Importantly, he should have his own bed or sleeping area which is completely out-of-bounds for humans. If he goes there, leave him in peace, and make sure your daughter understands this vital rule.

He has a very "stuck to" routine, mealtimes walk times etc. He has his own very comfortable bed and the only thing he gets when he's on it is lots of treats and cuddles, he NEVER gets sent to his bed for being "naughty"

Make it a rule that when he is fed he can eat in peace, away from the family, and nobody ever disturbs him. Make sure he is taught to sit and wait before you put the bowl down - don't give him it until he has all four paws on the ground.

Has been taught from 6 weeks old to feed by the whistle as taught be Guide Dogs, he still adheres to this and nodoby interferes with his feeding

Make another rule that nobody ever takes toys from him without offering an exchange, such as an alternative toy or a treat. You can start teaching him the 'leave' command this way without having fights or bites.

Funny you should say this as the first time he showed aggression a few months ago and why he failed to become a Guide was because this is exactly was what I was doing trying to train him!

Always keep in mind that you need to avoid confrontation. That doesn't mean let him have his own way - it just means that you need to learn to use distraction techniques, and routines, to keep yourself and the dog out of situations in which he is likely to 'argue' with you.

I like this, maybe I should've turned it into a game to avoid the baring teeth, got a treat and coaxed him that way maybe a behaviouralist will be able to help with that one

Please, for your own safety, ensure everyone involved with this dog, particularly yourself and your partner, is aware that trying to 'dominate' the dog or 'show him who's boss' is a recipe for disaster without proper guidance. If you misread his signals or push him too far someone will get hurt. Just work on avoiding the situations which lead to the confrontation.

I love this site and you lovely people, thank you so much for your concern I really DO appreciate it and I will take your advice

Kimitatsu

Hi Cheekymole

Have to say I agree with the majority of what these guys say apart from the notion of pack leaders.

I have worked with some of the best behaviourists in the country, have been involved in rescue for over 10 years and have worked with major rescue organisations such as Battersea Dogs Home and the RSPCA.

I have 5 dogs and one staying with us over the summer. My pack has a very distinct leader and all of the arguments between the dogs are ignored - in the main (99% of the time it is all talk and no action). All of my dogs are below every member of our family in the human pack, they have all been fed after us (scraps are a great thing for this!) and treats have always been liver, which has been at least "tasted" by one of us. It re-enforces the idea that they always are below us, and they get what we leave behind. In the wild this is what would happen in a pack.

We have crate trained all of our dogs, so if they overstep the mark they are put in there for "time out". Think of a naughty step for kids! Before anyone has a go, it is a place they feel safe, they cannot come to any harm but they also do not have the freedom to do what they want. One of my dogs now takes herself in there when she wants a bit of peace from the others.

Rather than treats I would use a favourite toy to swap for whatever they have. Only use the toy for training and play not for anything else. If the dog is becoming protective over one item then use a "flooding technique" We had one rescue that would guard her tennis ball so I put 50 in her kennel - it is impossible for her to guard all 50 at once!

Do your parents also run to the same rules? I ask this becuase I know my mum and dad are far more lenient than I am with the dogs!

You know your dog better than anyone, seek a behaviourists advice with your dog in front of them. Without seeing an animals body language all of this is generalist advice

Good luck with whatever you decide

cheekymole

kimitatsu
Thankyou, I have always fed him after us, he has his breakfast after I've had mine and I always "have" some of it before him, same with his tea and I was beginning to wonder if it was because of that that he was becoming like this?
The "flooding" technique sounds good but because he's a Lab, if I did this with biscuits/food etc he would eat the lot and be very fat or sick!!!
Again thanks for the advice my eyes fill with tears when I read your lovely replies.