PCN in Motability Car

Chillerhippie

UPDATE 03/06/2014
CLICK HERE

Hi, my mother in law has just got a motability car and we all went on a day trip to Keighley. She does not have a "Blue Badge" due to not having the time to order one yet because of her ill health and also other distressful family matters I do not need to go into detail about.

She does not drive (or even own a driving licence) and therefore, has named drivers for the vehicle.

On this day, we parked in a disabled bay in a car park run by Excel Parking.

We used the car park for 28min and did not pay for parking for 2 reasons.

1. We genuinely did not realise it was a P&D car park.
2. Because it's a motability car and the tax disc says "Disabled"

A week later, and Excel have sent her a letter (PCN) with pictures of the car entering and leaving the car park although, from the pictures you can not see a driver.
The reason for the contravention is: Parked without displaying a valid ticket / permit.

They are expecting her to pay a £60 fine and it mentions something about "paragraph 9 (2) (b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act (POFA) 2012 as well as Paragraph 9 (2) (f)

Where do "we" stand on all of this. I personally told her to ignore it but, it appears my information about PCN's is out dated.

Thanks for all the advice and help I receive upon the matter.

Kind Regards,
Chiller.

ColliesCarer

How long ago was the PCN received?
If still within the time frame Excel give for appeals your M-I-L will need to appeal as the registered keeper
Read the Newbies link for advice and a 1st appeal template letter
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

If too late to appeal to the PCN read the NEWBIES link advice about naming the driver

Chillerhippie

She got the letter yesterday with an issue date of 08/05/2014

Kind Regards,
Chiller.

ColliesCarer

Ok - then read the NEWBIES thread and follow the advice above about your M-i-L appealing to Excel as the registered keeper using the template letter provided.
See the Flowchart and the Walk through for route maps of the overall process

Chillerhippie

Just read the POFA 2012, Paragraph 9 (2) (f)

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

So, does this mean, she must tell them who the driver was or she has to pay the fine?


Also, just to add.
After reading the template letter, I am a little confused in regards to editing it to this case.

The PCN states the following:
"The PCN is issued to the Vehicle Registration mark **** *** for allegedly breaching the carparks T&C's in the privately operated car park at ###### car park

The alleged contravention was detected and recorded by Automatic Number Plate Recognition on the 30/04/14.

the letter then goes on to say (among other stuff) if the registered keeper does not provide the name and address of the driver, we may pursue the registered keeper for any parking charge which remains outstanding.

nigelbb

Chillerhippie wrote: »

Just read the POFA 2012, Paragraph 9 (2) (f)


So, does this mean, she must tell them who the driver was or she has to pay the fine?

NO NO NO NO NO

You have been given excellent advice by ColliesCarer. Just do as suggested & read the Newbies sticky thread.

Chillerhippie

nigelbb wrote: »

NO NO NO NO NO

You have been given excellent advice by ColliesCarer. Just do as suggested & read the Newbies sticky thread.

Sorry, we are all under a lot of stress with all the stuff going on in our lives at the moment and this charge notice is really not helping and its quite confusing.

I have updated the post above with another question and more information if you need it.


Kind Regards,

Chiller.

ColliesCarer

Hi Chiller,

It is confusing at first but you need to get your head around the fact that what happened on the day is largely irrelevant. What matters are the legal arguments - they are what's in the 1st appeal template letter - It needs no editing with what did or didn't happen.

Regarding POFA 2012 - the law was changed in 2012 to bring in Registered Keeper liability who can be held liable for the charge if the Parking company do not know the name and address of the driver.
The keeper is under no obligation to name the driver and can appeal this charge as The Registered Keeper and win.
If the Registered Keeper does not want to deal with this PCN then they can respond to the parking company and name the driver.
The driver would then be sent a Notice to Driver and once that arrives the Driver would send the appeal template letter (changing the I am the Registered Keeper Line)

All of this information is already in the NEWBIES thread I gave you the link to. You need to sit down with a cuppa and read it through a few times to get your head around this stuff.

Stroma

I would just send the letter in post #1 of the sticky thread, you are not appealing on what happened but their whole basis of ticketing in the first place. Pofa 2012 is just about keeper liability and nothing more really, they add stuff from that legislation to give an air of authority to their letters, the simple fact is that they have no authority.

Ensure you send the letter exactly as is just adding her name , address and date it. Then wait for the rejection of the appeal, once it arrives with our help you will win at popla the so called independent appeals service.

If that seems to be to much you can always pay a small fee to rid this from you permantly below.

http://www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk/

Tigsteroonie

Chillerhippie wrote: »

On this day, we parked in a disabled bay in a car park run by Excel Parking.

We used the car park for 28min and did not pay for parking for 2 reasons.

1. We genuinely did not realise it was a P&D car park.
2. Because it's a motability car and the tax disc says "Disabled"

Just a note regarding your 2nd reason - having a BB and/or being disabled doesn't mean you are automatically entitled to any concession with regards to parking in a car park. Concessions/free parking are provided at their discretion, and they can vary wildly. :A

Redx

for info to the OP and others :-

its worth pointing out that having a motability car does not exempt anybody from paying a parking fee or charge on any public or private land , neither does the disabled "tax disc" either (which are due to be phased out later this year)

the only actual item that exempts this lady or anyone else in similar circumstances is the EQUALITY ACT 2010 and there is no requirement under that act for a blue badge , motability car or any zero rated tax disc , so the parking event is controlled by the EA 2010 and not the displaying of any badge , never mind a blue badge , this BB rule is purely dreamt up by the private parking companies and yet the parking thereof is actually provided for anybody who has a protected characteristic

so any argument about this should be with the landowner and use the EA 2010 , same as the recent Meadowhall cases we have seen on here

as for this parking ticket , it should be appealed using the template in the NEWBIES sticky thread in the usual manner , possibly with a mention of the EA 2010 , bearing in mind that parking companies tend to ignore this aspect, as do POPLA !

its important to understand the basics here , so as a BB holder and a former motability vehicle "owner" , as well as having a protected characteristic called A.S. , I feel I can elaborate on this subject with some knowledge of it

however, I have learned a lot over the last 12 months about this subject as regards private parking issues , ie:- we never know it all !

ps:- read this too , it has more info on this subject

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4965063

so owning a motability car , with a zero rated tax disc , or a blue badge , or just a zero rated tax disc , does not exempt anybody from these "rules" , its is not fireproof , doesnt act as a "do not touch" invisible shield and yet it regularly causes confusion amongst those who dont learn the "regulations" or "rules"

ie:- none of the above are "a get out of jail free card"