Grant of Confirmation

buddy9

The house is in joint names, but you need to establish whether the title to the house has a special destination (survivorship clause) or not. If it has a special destination the house share is not entered on the inventory (but its value is taken into account for inheritance tax purposes).

If there is no survivorship in the title, the house share needs to be listed on the inventory. (and in such a case would be another reason that confirmation is needed).

Where the life policy was taken by the deceased on her own life and payable to executor or assignee etc, it forms part of the estate and is listed in the inventory as normal.

If the policy was for the benefit of the deceased’s spouse or children then it is treated as in trust and would be listed in the C1 differently.

glensboy

Folks would like to thank all on this forum, particularly Buddy 9, decided to submit confirmation without solicitor. Now approved by Glasgow Sheriff court would have never been successful without this forum. Thanks

Kev_W76

buddy9 said:

The house is in joint names, but you need to establish whether the title to the house has a special destination (survivorship clause) or not. If it has a special destination the house share is not entered on the inventory (but its value is taken into account for inheritance tax purposes).

If there is no survivorship in the title, the house share needs to be listed on the inventory. (and in such a case would be another reason that confirmation is needed).

Where the life policy was taken by the deceased on her own life and payable to executor or assignee etc, it forms part of the estate and is listed in the inventory as normal.

If the policy was for the benefit of the deceased’s spouse or children then it is treated as in trust and would be listed in the C1 differently.

hi Buddy I wonder if you can help.

I've confirmed that the house was under a survivorship clause so havent included it in the Inventory but have included the insurance policy and other moveable estate information. At the moment the carry forward is £188,600

Am I right in saying that under P4 Q11 I should add half the value of the property (deceased's share) onto the carried forward value and then deduct their share of the mortgage in P4 Q13

If the gross value in Q11 with half the property is >£325,000 but everything is left to the spouse via a Will then I assume it is still exempt/excepted on the basis that the gross value of the estate is less that £3m and all of the estate is passing to the deceased spouse as per page 15 on C3

As the property isnt in C1 there is nowhere to note how the valuation was then undertaken is that right ?

Is there still a requirement to then have to complete an IHT 400 ?

What would then go in Q23, Q24 and Q25 ?

Sorry im right at the end in submitting but this bit is confusing me

buddy9

It is important to be correct about a special destination. It is evident by words of survivorship in the proprietorship section of the (LR) title. (Though divorce will make survivorship non operative).

Suggestions below Qs.

Am I right in saying that under P4 Q11 I should add half the value of the property (deceased's share) onto the carried forward value and then deduct their share of the mortgage in P4 Q13

No. The house share value is not included in box 11. Box 11 value is the same as the inventory carry forward. The house share is included in the value of box 23

If the gross value in Q11 with half the property is >£325,000 but everything is left to the spouse via a Will then I assume it is still exempt/excepted on the basis that the gross value of the estate is less that £3m and all of the estate is passing to the deceased spouse as per page 15 on C3

Page 4 values relate to confirmation. The page 5 totals are used for IHT.

The status as an excepted estate is determined from the information on page 5. 

In this case, if the gross value for IHT (box 23) is not more than £325k it is an excepted estate, or

if the gross value for IHT (box 23) is more than £325k but not more than £3 million and the NQV (box 25) is not more than £325k it is an excepted estate.

As the property isnt in C1 there is nowhere to note how the valuation was then undertaken is that right ?

That is correct.

Is there still a requirement to then have to complete an IHT 400 ?

If excepted estate, no requirement for IHT 400

....................

Arguably, a mortgaged house with a special destination can be recorded in different ways. My suggestion below.

Place a zero value in box 13.

What would then go in Q23, Q24 and Q25 ?

Box 23 ; the sum of the value in box 11 plus the value of the house share (minus mortgage debt share) (plus any non-exempt gifts etc)

Box 24 ; the value of box 23 minus the liabilities (as listed in box 12 and box 14).

Box 25 ; will be zero if all passes to a surviving spouse. (This assumes that there are no children, or if there are, any entitlement to legitim has been renounced).

Kev_W76

buddy9 said:

It is important to be correct about a special destination. It is evident by words of survivorship in the proprietorship section of the (LR) title. (Though divorce will make survivorship non operative).

Suggestions below Qs.

Am I right in saying that under P4 Q11 I should add half the value of the property (deceased's share) onto the carried forward value and then deduct their share of the mortgage in P4 Q13

No. The house share value is not included in box 11. Box 11 value is the same as the inventory carry forward. The house share is included in the value of box 23

If the gross value in Q11 with half the property is >£325,000 but everything is left to the spouse via a Will then I assume it is still exempt/excepted on the basis that the gross value of the estate is less that £3m and all of the estate is passing to the deceased spouse as per page 15 on C3

Page 4 values relate to confirmation. The page 5 totals are used for IHT.

The status as an excepted estate is determined from the information on page 5. 

In this case, if the gross value for IHT (box 23) is not more than £325k it is an excepted estate, or

if the gross value for IHT (box 23) is more than £325k but not more than £3 million and the NQV (box 25) is not more than £325k it is an excepted estate.

As the property isnt in C1 there is nowhere to note how the valuation was then undertaken is that right ?

That is correct.

Is there still a requirement to then have to complete an IHT 400 ?

If excepted estate, no requirement for IHT 400

....................

Arguably, a mortgaged house with a special destination can be recorded in different ways. My suggestion below.

Place a zero value in box 13.

What would then go in Q23, Q24 and Q25 ?

Box 23 ; the sum of the value in box 11 plus the value of the house share (minus mortgage debt share) (plus any non-exempt gifts etc)

Box 24 ; the value of box 23 minus the liabilities (as listed in box 12 and box 14).

Box 25 ; will be zero if all passes to a surviving spouse. (This assumes that there are no children, or if there are, any entitlement to legitim has been renounced).

Thanks buddy

We've had a solicitor who is a conveyancer check and confirmed the survivorship clause I assume they were able to check the title deeds on the land registry.

As many have said your knowledge here is invaluable, when covering everything above the NQV is just under £325k (£314k)  taking into account all the above so stands as an excepted estate

Here is hoping I've done the rest of it right.

 

Kev_W76

buddy9 said:

It is important to be correct about a special destination. It is evident by words of survivorship in the proprietorship section of the (LR) title. (Though divorce will make survivorship non operative).

Suggestions below Qs.

Am I right in saying that under P4 Q11 I should add half the value of the property (deceased's share) onto the carried forward value and then deduct their share of the mortgage in P4 Q13

No. The house share value is not included in box 11. Box 11 value is the same as the inventory carry forward. The house share is included in the value of box 23

If the gross value in Q11 with half the property is >£325,000 but everything is left to the spouse via a Will then I assume it is still exempt/excepted on the basis that the gross value of the estate is less that £3m and all of the estate is passing to the deceased spouse as per page 15 on C3

Page 4 values relate to confirmation. The page 5 totals are used for IHT.

The status as an excepted estate is determined from the information on page 5. 

In this case, if the gross value for IHT (box 23) is not more than £325k it is an excepted estate, or

if the gross value for IHT (box 23) is more than £325k but not more than £3 million and the NQV (box 25) is not more than £325k it is an excepted estate.

As the property isnt in C1 there is nowhere to note how the valuation was then undertaken is that right ?

That is correct.

Is there still a requirement to then have to complete an IHT 400 ?

If excepted estate, no requirement for IHT 400

....................

Arguably, a mortgaged house with a special destination can be recorded in different ways. My suggestion below.

Place a zero value in box 13.

What would then go in Q23, Q24 and Q25 ?

Box 23 ; the sum of the value in box 11 plus the value of the house share (minus mortgage debt share) (plus any non-exempt gifts etc)

Box 24 ; the value of box 23 minus the liabilities (as listed in box 12 and box 14).

Box 25 ; will be zero if all passes to a surviving spouse. (This assumes that there are no children, or if there are, any entitlement to legitim has been renounced).

Hi buddy

When finalising the details it was noted that the deceased was medically retired on terminal illness grounds 2 days prior to their death and a lump sum payable was passed to the husband on an expression of wish.

On that basis I believe this needs to be included in the C1 inventory and within the gross inheritance calculation on page 5 Q23, this is already over £325k but am I right in saying as this is all going to the spouse the NQV is still £0 and no IHT 400 required?

Including the lump sum this is still well under <£1m for gross inheritance tax before deductions

dbarclay81

Thanks to everyone on this forum for the advice, particularly buddy9. My confirmation was hand delivered to Paisley Sheriff Court today and checked there and then. Only one small amendment required - in the Declaration by I put <my name> sometime residing at <my address in will> now at <current address> and was advised to score out references to previous address so it was just my name and address. Certificates should be ready for collection next week 

buddy9

Kev_W76 said:

When finalising the details it was noted that the deceased was medically retired on terminal illness grounds 2 days prior to their death and a lump sum payable was passed to the husband on an expression of wish.

On that basis I believe this needs to be included in the C1 inventory and within the gross inheritance calculation on page 5 Q23, this is already over £325k but am I right in saying as this is all going to the spouse the NQV is still £0 and no IHT 400 required?

Including the lump sum this is still well under <£1m for gross inheritance tax before deductions

On the basis of the short information you give, I don't see how the pension payment should be included in the inventory, and I don't immediately see why it forms part of the IHT calculation.

squareslice

I have been putting off doing the C1 form for my mum, since September and without this forum I would have kept putting it off - I have ready numerous threads and taken notes from all of them and I can't thank the people who contribute enough, Buddy is a literal angel! 
My mums is pretty simple, a house fully paid off and ready to sell and a bank account with nothing in it as she paid for her funeral just before she died. I have put down for her contents etc too but its all less than £200k. My only question is now doqueting - I saw a thread with something mentioned and for the life of me I just can't find it, I have favourited so many. I am going to go into Glasgow with all the documents. In terms of the will - do I just do a covering style page and docquet on that? What do I write? Do I docquet the death certificate? I printed off the title details for the house - do I submit that too and docquet? Have I forgotten anything? Stupid question but I have filled in the C1 form online, do I just print off without my signature and date, take it with me and sign when I hand into the court? I am assuming I can pay when I am there. 
They really don't make this easy do they?
Thanks in anticipation. 

buddy9

squareslice said:

I have been putting off doing the C1 form for my mum, since September and without this forum I would have kept putting it off - I have ready numerous threads and taken notes from all of them and I can't thank the people who contribute enough, Buddy is a literal angel! 
My mums is pretty simple, a house fully paid off and ready to sell and a bank account with nothing in it as she paid for her funeral just before she died. I have put down for her contents etc too but its all less than £200k. My only question is now doqueting - I saw a thread with something mentioned and for the life of me I just can't find it, I have favourited so many. I am going to go into Glasgow with all the documents. In terms of the will - do I just do a covering style page and docquet on that? What do I write? Do I docquet the death certificate? I printed off the title details for the house - do I submit that too and docquet? Have I forgotten anything? Stupid question but I have filled in the C1 form online, do I just print off without my signature and date, take it with me and sign when I hand into the court? I am assuming I can pay when I am there. 
They really don't make this easy do they?
Thanks in anticipation. 

The docket is written on the will. See example here.

Do not docket the death certificate. Do not submit title deeds.

Sign and date the C1 once it is completed. The date needs to be the same as the date on the will docket.

Payment is normally taken when the C1 is approved but the Glasgow experience is likely to be different than others’ experiences reported on this forum, due to Glasgow being busier than many other courts.