car insured 3 months but not on mid!

Iceweasel

This is interesting:

http://www.monthlyinsurance.org.uk/carryyourdocs.html

dacouch

GingerBob wrote: »

Why? You're not obliged to carry a cert, and it seems they ignore it anyway. It was either seized unlawfully or it wasn't.

Have you read the court case I linked to, if not then read it for the reason why

spacey2012

The police can only place a PNC marker, which i doubt they will, the MID is a different database and they will not waste time running a PNC before stopping the car.
Certainly get on to your insurance and make a complaint if they can not sort the situation in 48 hours.

Joe_Horner

GingerBob wrote: »

Why? You're not obliged to carry a cert

Technically, yes you are (along with drivers licence and MOT) in order to produce it when required by a constable (RTA 1988 S.165). They provide a statutory means of producing it later if necessary, but the basic requirement is to produce "on being so required".

Incidentally, the Act has been updated so that showing an electronic copy on equipment provided by you is acceptable if the original cerificate was sent to you by email (S.165 (2B)(a)). So a PDF on your phone is fine.

and it seems they ignore it anyway..

Only in Spacey's world - he's been watching to many cop docudramas




eta: Incidentally, the fact that you should technically have your docs available when driving doesn't mean anybody actually does normally! But since they brought in the MID it's a good idea to if your car isn't showing on the database.

dacouch

Iceweasel wrote: »

This is interesting:

http://www.monthlyinsurance.org.uk/carryyourdocs.html

That website has some shockingly incorrect advice on some of the other pages.

It breaches quite a few trading laws and in my opinion they should be regulated by the FCA but don't appear to be

Iceweasel

GingerBob wrote: »

Why? You're not obliged to carry a cert, and it seems they ignore it anyway. It was either seized unlawfully or it wasn't.

You know what the real problem is here - ANPR. It's a massive intrusion into our privacy, enabling the police to log the movements of the the entire motoring population, innocent or not.

Technically - you ARE required to produce a valid insurance certificate and your driving licence to a police officer at any time .... but .... there is the dispensation of being issued with a HORT1 (Home Office Road Traffic form 1) which means that they can be produced at a police station of you choice with the next 7 days where a police officer will copy the details of the docs onto a HORT2.

But there is another requirement that if you have an accident you are obliged to give the third party details of your insurance. I sure as hell would not be happy to be told that anyone who I was involved in an accident with, had the docs at home for safe-keeping.

In such a case the police would issue a HORT1 and give me access to the details when they eventually are produced.

Not a good system.

Too much of a gentlemans agreement and trust which can be so easily abused.

I agree with GingerBob - too much ANPR and reliance on computers who never lie of course.

spacey2012

In spacey's world you get pulled over by a traffic cop who has seen and heard every tall story a thousand times.
The decision to seize is entirely their discretion.
If they were to let you go and you drive another hundred yards and kill a full family and it turns out it was a fake after all.
The traffic cop has just lost his pension.
What would you do.

They will call your insurance, IMO very fair, illegal seizures are rare, they do happen, usually a quick phone call on the direct hotline clears things up.

Joe_Horner

spacey2012 wrote: »

The decision to seize is entirely their discretion.

No, the power to seize only exists where:

(a) you fail to produce a relevant certificate

AND

(b) they have reasonable grounds to believe you're not insured

Note that (a) comes before (b), so if you do (a) then they have no legal power to seize, no matter how suspicious they may be.

In fact, if you produce a certificate that covers you and they phone the insurers to check then, even if the insurers make a mistake and actually tell them that it's not valid, it's still an unlawful seizure if they take the car.

That is exactly what the courts have ruled, and that's exactly how it is - regardless of how the rulers of SpaceyWorld think it should be.

spacey2012

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No, the power to seize only exists where:

(a) you fail to produce a relevant certificate

AND

(b) they have reasonable grounds to believe you're not insured

Note that (a) comes before (b), so if you do (a) then they have no legal power to seize, no matter how suspicious they may be.

In fact, if you produce a certificate that covers you and they phone the insurers to check then, even if the insurers make a mistake and actually tell them that it's not valid, it's still an unlawful seizure if they take the car.

That is exactly what the courts have ruled, and that's exactly how it is - regardless of how the rulers of SpaceyWorld think it should be.

Do you mean illegal ?
What you are quoting is Legislation not case law.


In spaceys world, if they say they are seizing your car, you have two choices, the second one ends in handcuffs and a charge of wilfully obstructing a police officer in execution of their duty and a free bed for the night.

Iceweasel

spacey2012 wrote: »

Do you mean illegal ?
What you are quoting is Legislation not case law.


In spaceys world, if they say they are seizing your car, you have two choices, the second one ends in handcuffs and a charge of wilfully obstructing a police officer in execution of their duty and a free bed for the night.

I have to agree with spacey here - if a police officer, rightly or wrongly, decides to seize your car - all you can do is let him/her seize it and then argue your case in court later.

And I've met polizei who know that and abuse the situation.

Hence why I carry all my docs with me - but even that is no guarantee.

Unfortunately our police service spend 95% of their time dealing with the 5% of the population who are chancers. After a time they see everyone as a chancer, and think they are the norm.:(

Same as teachers - they get told so many lies by pupils they eventually disbelieve all pupils. Then it's time to stop teaching/policing.