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Building regulations nightmare.
Ianbrown1110
Posts: 3 Newbie
Hello,
My fianc! and I are first time buyers and in the process of buying a 3 bed, end of terrace property in salford, manchester. I have viewed the property once with my fianc! and decided it is just what we were looking for. I decided to take a builder around for a second viewing to which he pointed out that the building has had a fairly recent new gable end and that this would need building regs. He also said I should be sure it has building regs for the 3rd floor bedroom and bathroom as this must have been an attic at some point.
I contacted the estate agents and asked them to ask the vendor about when the work was done. The vendor told the estate agent that he had the work done 5 years ago due to slight bowing and poor brick work but did not mention anything about the building regs (think the agent forgot to ask). When I viewed the property the second time with the builder I asked the tenant living there if he knew anything about the work done. He said he can't remember when, but he helped the vendor do some decorating after the wall had been put up and that the 3rd storey was made to house the vendors son, before they moved in. They claimed they had rented the property for two years.
Meanwhile I had a mortgage application going through and the solicitors had sent me some paperwork which stated that the vendor had bought the property just two years ago. Alarm bells rang. The supposed third storey for the vendors son was supposed to have been done prior to the tenants moving in. This would mean that the work was done more than two years ago. And the vendor claimed he had the gable end built 5 years ago. I realised someone was not telling the truth.
To cut an extremely long story fairly short...
I asked my solicitors to to try and obtain the relevant certificates from the vendors solicitors. They replied that they did not have it and that the searches would reveal this. My solicitors began searches, at a cost of course. Whilst waiting for the searches my solicitor did some more interrogating of the vendors solicitors about the issue. They replied to say that their client has no knowledge of a gable end being built.
My solicitor told them about the different story given by the tenants and the estate agents on behalf of the vendor. He also asked why he couldn't provide the documents or confirm he has applied for retrospective approval. They then said they would email the vendor to ask about any works done on the property.
This was their reply -
"my client lives in France. He has telephoned to advise originally the property was a shop and converted to a residential property in the 90’s. The work was shoddy and around ten years ago the gable wall was stripped of the first layer of bricks and wall ties were fitted and the bricks were replaced. My client states planning and building regulations was not required as far as he was advised. We would propose a lack of building regulation policy.
Please confirm your acceptance and we will provide a draft."
To which my solicitor repled -
"A title policy does not provide suitable assurance about the works that have been carried out
Please confirm that your client will now make application for retrospective planning permission and building regulation approval for both the gable end and 3rd floor works"
And finally a reply from the vendors solicitor-
This will void any policy we can provide and due to the age of the works we do not propose to obtain retrospective consent.
Please advise if your clients are proceeding "
I am just completely lost in a maze of law lingo and lies. As you probably are after reading that.
Do I pull out of this sale?
What are my options?
Are the regs completely necessary?
I have been advised by solicitor, mortgage advisor and structural engineer not to touch the property without the building regs.
My fianc! and I are first time buyers and in the process of buying a 3 bed, end of terrace property in salford, manchester. I have viewed the property once with my fianc! and decided it is just what we were looking for. I decided to take a builder around for a second viewing to which he pointed out that the building has had a fairly recent new gable end and that this would need building regs. He also said I should be sure it has building regs for the 3rd floor bedroom and bathroom as this must have been an attic at some point.
I contacted the estate agents and asked them to ask the vendor about when the work was done. The vendor told the estate agent that he had the work done 5 years ago due to slight bowing and poor brick work but did not mention anything about the building regs (think the agent forgot to ask). When I viewed the property the second time with the builder I asked the tenant living there if he knew anything about the work done. He said he can't remember when, but he helped the vendor do some decorating after the wall had been put up and that the 3rd storey was made to house the vendors son, before they moved in. They claimed they had rented the property for two years.
Meanwhile I had a mortgage application going through and the solicitors had sent me some paperwork which stated that the vendor had bought the property just two years ago. Alarm bells rang. The supposed third storey for the vendors son was supposed to have been done prior to the tenants moving in. This would mean that the work was done more than two years ago. And the vendor claimed he had the gable end built 5 years ago. I realised someone was not telling the truth.
To cut an extremely long story fairly short...
I asked my solicitors to to try and obtain the relevant certificates from the vendors solicitors. They replied that they did not have it and that the searches would reveal this. My solicitors began searches, at a cost of course. Whilst waiting for the searches my solicitor did some more interrogating of the vendors solicitors about the issue. They replied to say that their client has no knowledge of a gable end being built.
My solicitor told them about the different story given by the tenants and the estate agents on behalf of the vendor. He also asked why he couldn't provide the documents or confirm he has applied for retrospective approval. They then said they would email the vendor to ask about any works done on the property.
This was their reply -
"my client lives in France. He has telephoned to advise originally the property was a shop and converted to a residential property in the 90’s. The work was shoddy and around ten years ago the gable wall was stripped of the first layer of bricks and wall ties were fitted and the bricks were replaced. My client states planning and building regulations was not required as far as he was advised. We would propose a lack of building regulation policy.
Please confirm your acceptance and we will provide a draft."
To which my solicitor repled -
"A title policy does not provide suitable assurance about the works that have been carried out
Please confirm that your client will now make application for retrospective planning permission and building regulation approval for both the gable end and 3rd floor works"
And finally a reply from the vendors solicitor-
This will void any policy we can provide and due to the age of the works we do not propose to obtain retrospective consent.
Please advise if your clients are proceeding "
I am just completely lost in a maze of law lingo and lies. As you probably are after reading that.
Do I pull out of this sale?
What are my options?
Are the regs completely necessary?
I have been advised by solicitor, mortgage advisor and structural engineer not to touch the property without the building regs.
0
Comments
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Why pay a solicitor for advice if you are going to ignore it.
By the way Salfordians take exception to people saying Salford is in Manchester. It is a Separate City next to Manchester0 -
If you are getting a mortgage your lender will not let you proceed without the relevant permissions / documentation.
The vendor needs to realise that, unless they find a cash buyer, the house is unlikely to sell, as subsequent buyers will discover this as well. Their solicitor should know this.0 -
The vendor are proposing an indemnity (insurance) policy which will protect against enforcement action for lack of approval. Your solicitor is pointing out that the proposed policy will not stop the wall falling down.
Enforcement action is very unlikely, given the age of the works, so if you are concerned about the quality of the works you should have them assessed by a structural engineer.
If you dont want to pay for a structural engineer then your options are to take it on trust that the works are OK or withdraw from the purchase.0 -
The vendor are proposing an indemnity (insurance) policy which will protect against enforcement action for lack of approval. Your solicitor is pointing out that the proposed policy will not stop the wall falling down.
Enforcement action is very unlikely, given the age of the works, so if you are concerned about the quality of the works you should have them assessed by a structural engineer.
If you dont want to pay for a structural engineer then your options are to take it on trust that the works are OK or withdraw from the purchase.Ianbrown1110 wrote: »Hello,
I have been advised by solicitor, mortgage advisor and structural engineer not to touch the property without the building regs.
As the seller is unwilling to prove that the structure is safe, and has told provable lies to try to hoodwink you, and your structural engineer has already told you to walk away if you don't get the proof of its structural safety via B Regs, then I think the answer is clear, even if it's not what you'd perhaps like to hear.0 -
Thanks for the advice all. It's a great help. It's not so much "not taking advice" from the professionals that have advised me. It's more wanting to hear it in terms I can understand. Which has been done. So thanks.
Although losing a few hundred on solicitor fees is a pain... I'm more than willing to walk away from this sale if I need to. I do have a mortgage sorted, valuation done and certificate. so I assume this now has nothing to do with the lender and they can not withdraw the mortgage due to not having the documentation for the work done?
I'm just going to put the ball in their court and tell them if they're not willing to get it signed off, they must arrange and pay for indemnity insurance AND a full structural survey for the sale to proceed. This may sound like a big ask but if they're not willing, neither am I.
I'm not forking out for a full structural only to find that it's not safe. I've been messed about enough.0 -
Ianbrown1110 wrote: »Thanks for the advice all. It's a great help. It's not so much "not taking advice" from the professionals that have advised me. It's more wanting to hear it in terms I can understand. Which has been done. So thanks.
Although losing a few hundred on solicitor fees is a pain... I'm more than willing to walk away from this sale if I need to. I do have a mortgage sorted, valuation done and certificate. so I assume this now has nothing to do with the lender and they can not withdraw the mortgage due to not having the documentation for the work done?
I'm just going to put the ball in their court and tell them if they're not willing to get it signed off, they must arrange and pay for indemnity insurance AND a full structural survey for the sale to proceed. This may sound like a big ask but if they're not willing, neither am I.
I'm not forking out for a full structural only to find that it's not safe. I've been messed about enough.
Good decision.0 -
A full structural survey from a surveyor of your choice!Unless it is damaged or discontinued - ignore any discount of over 25%0
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Ianbrown1110 wrote: »I'm just going to put the ball in their court and tell them if they're not willing to get it signed off, they must arrange and pay for indemnity insurance AND a full structural survey for the sale to proceed. This may sound like a big ask but if they're not willing, neither am I.
it should read
I'm just going to put the ball in their court and tell them if they're not willing to get it signed off I'm going to walk away and minimise the stress in my futureWe’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Ianbrown1110 wrote: »and they can not withdraw the mortgage due to not having the documentation for the work done?
Yes they can. Your solicitor also represents the the interests of the lender. As part of the process the solicitor will inform the lender of any issues regarding the suitability of the property as security for a mortgage.0 -
dig13inrubble wrote: »Why pay a solicitor for advice if you are going to ignore it.
By the way Salfordians take exception to people saying Salford is in Manchester. It is a Separate City next to Manchester
I'm from worsley originally which makes me a Salfordian and I and everyone else I know refers themselves as Mancunians because Salford is a filthy hovel.
Back to the original post though. If you buy it when eventually you decide to sell you will have the same problems regarding building regs. I would forget it or negotiate a substantial drop in price and live with the consequences.
Listen to your solicitors they will have seen it all before.0
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