Help to Work Programme comes in today

Vincent_Buenisedes

People don't sweat it - there's load of ways to get out of these schemes. They are poorly setup so they are absolute riddled with loopholes. I'm a survivor of the trial for the CWP so I know what the score is with that. Turned out a right laugh;) As for the other stuff, if I know my local jobcentre, it'll be a 5 minute signing. Boxes ticked, job done. All this policy is fluff for Express readers who get all gooey at the thought of "scroungers" getting their just desserts. Don't give them the satisfaction.

JeLaw

Vincent_Buenisedes wrote: »

People don't sweat it - there's load of ways to get out of these schemes. They are poorly setup so they are absolute riddled with loopholes. I'm a survivor of the trial for the CWP so I know what the score is with that. Turned out a right laugh;) As for the other stuff, if I know my local jobcentre, it'll be a 5 minute signing. Boxes ticked, job done. All this policy is fluff for Express readers who get all gooey at the thought of "scroungers" getting their just desserts. Don't give them the satisfaction.

What really worries me is that this scheme will actually serve to keep people unemployed. There's little incentive for a company to pay an employee when they can get labour for free....

It's also such a waste of tax money.

I'd actually welcome something like this if it was paid. Short-term unpaid work experience (whilst receiving benefits) would be fine but 6 months should be paid.

JeLaw

busy_mom wrote: »

It is anticipated 1-3 long term unemployed will take part in community action programme. No -one is forcing long term unemloyed to do anything. They will have a choice and yes they may lose their benefit if they decide not to take part in any schemes. Community placements are for those who haven't worked in any way shape or form in over tow years. Why are people so against voluntarty work. Yes benefit may be sanctioned for those who fail to comply but statistics show those long term unemployed will continue to remain on benefits if left with no intervention at all. Yes as many have said the aim is to catch those who really dont want a job, are already working or know there way round the system enough.
Whats so wrong with going to JCP daily for supported jobsearch? Fares will be re-embursed and then you have the reat of the day free to continue as you please? Saves your own electricity and internet.

I have seen many people benefit form taking up an opportunity to develop their skills and learn new things. WEX via JCP do also lead to work. I have mentioned in previous threads people who have gained confidence and skills that have lead to employment VIA a WEX.
Last week I had a gentleman who hasn't worked in 8 years taken off after completing an 8 week wex with a recycling company. The employer gave four people a chance and him and one other gentleman stuck it out, full time permanaent position at the end.
Not all WEX leads to jobs but surely its better than nothing if you have a huge gap on your C.V.?

JCP will not stop any voluntary work as long as its for a non profit making organisation and does not stop people seeking work, if you want to volunteer for a company it must be set up as a work expereince and restricted to 8 weeks.

It doesn't make sense. JCP won't stop voluntary work as long as it's only for 8 weeks. Presumably so someone is "available for work". Yet the work programme scheme will force someone, and yes, it's forced if the alternative is not eat, pay bills, rent or mortgage (or turn to crime) to either work for free (full-time) or volunteer (full-time) for 6 months. So unavailable for work long-term!

What's wrong with paying someone on the work programme. Genuine work experience, i.e. receiving a proper wage for work performed?

BillJones

JeLaw wrote: »

It's wonderful to read that should someone with an Oxbridge degree (and perhaps a doctorate) find themselves out of work, they would not be overlooked as "too experienced" or "over-qualified" for a position as a cleaner or junior administrator at your company.

Where did you read that? I certainly didn't write it.

BillJones

Vincent_Buenisedes wrote: »

People don't sweat it - there's load of ways to get out of these schemes. They are poorly setup so they are absolute riddled with loopholes. I'm a survivor of the trial for the CWP so I know what the score is with that. Turned out a right laugh;) As for the other stuff, if I know my local jobcentre, it'll be a 5 minute signing. Boxes ticked, job done. All this policy is fluff for Express readers who get all gooey at the thought of "scroungers" getting their just desserts. Don't give them the satisfaction.

Have you ever considered using your street smarts to get yourself a proper job?

busy_mom_2

JeLaw wrote: »

It doesn't make sense. JCP won't stop voluntary work as long as it's only for 8 weeks. Presumably so someone is "available for work". Yet the work programme scheme will force someone, and yes, it's forced if the alternative is not eat, pay bills, rent or mortgage (or turn to crime) to either work for free (full-time) or volunteer (full-time) for 6 months. So unavailable for work long-term!

What's wrong with paying someone on the work programme. Genuine work experience, i.e. receiving a proper wage for work performed?

The reason it is restricted to 8 week is so compaines wont get long term skilled labour free.
Who said anyone must voluntery for a charitable organisation full time? I do voluntary work but it not full time, I work full time and give some of my free time to support others.

I am trying to explain the difference between voluntary work and a wor experience. They are different. At present wex are promoted to 18-24. Under the new scheme they will be certin one promoted to over 25's.
Please bear in my there are many diferent schems with different rules.

As for paying people, the average community work placement will be 30 hours per week, take off jobsearch time which will be around 10 hours so they will be doing an average of 20 hours, bear in mind JSA rate, council tax and rent let alone dental treatment and prescriptions that have been recieved for more than 3 years I feel this is a fair payback.

No I dont belive the scheme will solve all problems, it will not help everyone but the scheme is in two parts, these prior to WP and those after it. Please remember we are talking long term unemployed post work programme, post FND and it is anticipated to be one it three. This amounts to around 5% or each JSA offices register being referred to the community 6 mnth placement.
Others will take part is supported jobsearch and other incentives.
Post work progame is basically as it is now but all claimiants must produce a good quality C.V. be available and prove they are actively seeking employment. Basic skills and none english speakers will also have to improve their skills.

mro

busy_mom wrote: »

It is anticipated 1-3 long term unemployed will take part in community action programme. No -one is forcing long term unemloyed to do anything. They will have a choice and yes they may lose their benefit if they decide not to take part in any schemes. Community placements are for those who haven't worked in any way shape or form in over tow years. Why are people so against voluntarty work. Yes benefit may be sanctioned for those who fail to comply but statistics show those long term unemployed will continue to remain on benefits if left with no intervention at all. Yes as many have said the aim is to catch those who really dont want a job, are already working or know there way round the system enough.
Whats so wrong with going to JCP daily for supported jobsearch? Fares will be re-embursed and then you have the reat of the day free to continue as you please? Saves your own electricity and internet.

I have seen many people benefit form taking up an opportunity to develop their skills and learn new things. WEX via JCP do also lead to work. I have mentioned in previous threads people who have gained confidence and skills that have lead to employment VIA a WEX.
Last week I had a gentleman who hasn't worked in 8 years taken off after completing an 8 week wex with a recycling company. The employer gave four people a chance and him and one other gentleman stuck it out, full time permanaent position at the end.
Not all WEX leads to jobs but surely its better than nothing if you have a huge gap on your C.V.?

JCP will not stop any voluntary work as long as its for a non profit making organisation and does not stop people seeking work, if you want to volunteer for a company it must be set up as a work expereince and restricted to 8 weeks.

Is the Community Action Programme fully voluntary ?

Do people have the choice to refuse ?

lakes17

mro wrote: »

Is the Community Action Programme fully voluntary ?

Do people have the choice to refuse ?

The answer to this is yes they have the choice to refuse but what busy mom omitted to say is that if you refuse then sanctions will be put in place.

silentkiller

I was just waiting for a string of 'it's the foreigners taking our jobs' etc! :doh: that's all I hear from people I know who are unemployed..
But that's besides the point...

The company I work at has had numerous bad experiences with people who have been long term unemployed. (even had a driver who said he was at our interview because he had to be and didn't want the job). We have had people who are on probation work for free with us for a month (and all but one were terrible and didn't last the month) to see if they could get a job with us at the end of it - only one did and he never showed on his start date.

Now, besides looking for an apprentice (again that is a bone of contention for me but not my company so have no choice), we only employ people who work for money, not for free because in my experience it just doesn't work.

I'm not saying it CAN'T work, but I'm saying, I haven't seen it work.

So I'm in two minds about the whole thing because whilst I think it would be good to force the people to do some extra work (in the community, etc etc), I don't really think it will work out. It will punish those who are older (and I'm not saying I'm against young people because I'm only 24 but in every single interview session I've done, the young ones typically tend to be the worse for not wanting to be there, or not having a clue), or those who really want a job as well.

Education seems like a good idea as everyone has said above - perhaps put everyone on a compulsory course of some sort (to choose from admin, IT, sales, business studies etc).

When we interview we don't necessarily use something on the CV as a negative thing - we have employed a man who used to work the Hong Kong government and now works in a warehouse (which he loves by the way) so we do hire over experienced people, however if I saw a massive gap in someone's employment history like not working for a very long time and not having anything on the CV to explain why, I would ask and if they were unable to give a satisfactory answer then I would not consider them. I don't think I'm the minority there.

There are ALWAYS free courses you can do (Alison) which may not gain you accreditation BUT prove you have been doing something with your time (if you can of course but if you are off for being very ill, or had a child etc I get that).

Last year when I was interviewing I had a woman who had had cancer and so had not worked since 2001 or something, I think, however she had about 15 certificates she had done (that were not nationally accredited) to fill in her time.

There are things people can do to boost their image and perhaps the Government needs to make things like that more compulsory than just forcing people to do work.

*I am not against young people and believe there are more than enough exceptions to the rule, I am basing my entire answer on my experience*

Morglin

Liverpool Council are the first council to announce they are boycotting the scheme, and will not use Help to Work claimants for community work:

http://samedifference1.com/2014/04/29/liverpool-council-boycotts-help-to-work/

And, more and more charities are doing the same:

http://charitywatchuk.wordpress.com/

Welfare rights are also getting info that something of an admin meltdown, with the DWP, is starting, as the practicalities haven't been sorted out:

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/chaos-at-the-dwp-as-bungled-help-to-work-scheme-attempts-to-launch/

Lin