Help to Work Programme comes in today

Morglin

"Harsh rules to drive the long-term unemployed into work come into force today, which state they will only receive their benefits if they either show up at a jobcentre every day or commit to six months of voluntary work.


Those who have not found work after two years on the existing Work Programme, will have to enrol on the Help to Work scheme or face reduced benefits.

Those who fail to comply with the rules, which also offer signing up to a training scheme as a third option, will have their jobseeker’s allowance docked for four weeks for the first offence, and 13 weeks for the second.


Under the previous system, people were only required to attend a jobcentre once a fortnight so the move is likely to see long queues of people lining up to sign on every day.


The stringent measures announced today by the Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, under the heading Help to Work, reflect his conviction that there is work for the unemployed, if they can be induced, by a combination of encouragement and sanctions, to wean themselves off welfare.


One major part of the scheme has run into immediate trouble.

A group of leading charities, including Oxfam, has announced that it is boycotting the new mandatory work placement scheme on the grounds that volunteering should be genuinely voluntary and not something that the long-term unemployed are forced to do under a threat of losing their benefits.

The charities have noted that the maximum community service order that someone might receive if they were found guilty of drink-driving or assault is 300 hours, but claimants on six-month workfare schemes will have to work without pay for more than double this time.

The new rules were first announced by the Chancellor, George Osborne, in his speech to last year’s Tory conference. The idea behind unpaid community work is that it will help the long-term unemployed learn the discipline of observing office hours and being part of a team.

But 30 voluntary sector organisations including Oxfam, the Salvation Army and the YMCA, are launching a campaign today to Keep Volunteering Voluntary, forming an alliance of groups who have all agreed not to sign up to the scheme. “Workfare schemes force unemployed people to carry out unpaid work or face benefit sanctions that can cause hardship and destitution,” a pledge signed by the campaign’s members reads. “We believe in keeping volunteering voluntary and will not participate in government workfare schemes.”

Also on Monday, those wanting to claim Jobseeker's Allowance will have to prove they are ready for work, before they can apply.
The government has said the changes will help to put an end to the "one-way street in benefits".
But the TUC says the rules could discourage more people from claiming it.
"Making the JSA rules tougher and tougher will put people off claiming the benefits they need without doing much to help them get jobs," said Frances O'Grady, the TUC's general secretary.
But the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) said there was no evidence that people would be put off claiming."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jobless-mustsign-on-every-day-government-to-dock-money-from-longterm-unemployed-if-they-do-not-comply-9294586.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614591/Clean-war-memorials-lose-benefits-Long-term-jobless-ordered-community-work-stripped-jobseekers-allowance.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27177767

Lin

specialboy

If they have been out of work for 2 years then they should be expected to up their game and attend more often but I do think every day is a little much.

BillJones

I can see why charities would not want to be involved. People out of work for over two years are not going to be be the pick of the crop whichever way you look at it, but if after that time they are still needing to be forced to attend, they'll pretty much all be more trouble than they are worth.

It's a shame, as people could use the benefits that regularly attending a workplace brings, but you can't expect unrelated charities to harm their work by taking on those who don't want to be there.

bluenoseam

specialboy wrote: »

If they have been out of work for 2 years then they should be expected to up their game and attend more often but I do think every day is a little much.

This would be all well & good in an economy whereby there were jobs readily available, however that is pie in the sky stuff in 2014 - there are jobs, but in a number of cases they're out of reach. I get the premise of these moves, but here's the problem, where it should be aimed at hurting those who are genuinely abusing the system, it will hurt those who the sad truth is the system has failed them. This "government" has banged on about jobs for 4 years now but job creation under them has been slow - hell it's taken them 3 years to weed out the fake jobs on the governments OWN site!

The charities have rightly seen that this is punishing low level workers most commonly because we're in a post-recession black zone for them. Think about it like this, for the last 6 years there's been a problem in the middle of the job market, so the place where your graduates go & those who have for various reasons left middle management positions. (Think all those retail supervisors, assistant managers & store managers as well) That has induced many of those to seek work in the lower end of the marketplace, problem being while their target zone for jobs is getting slowly better, they're also competing with fresh faces for it. That's clogging up the entry levels for those people who will require those jobs as ultimately their experience & skillset limits them slightly.

I'm not saying there are no jobs, there are & people should rightly be encouraged into them, but look at it from this perspective. You have a vacancy, you get 100 applications (just for an argument's sake - since the real figure will be much higher), of those 100 applications 25% have a degree, 25% are either in work or are short term unemployed & the remainder are long term unemployed. The truth is for those who are long term unemployed in a lot of cases they're competing against people who are MASSIVELY more appealing to employers.

scooby088

I guess there will be a shortage of real volunteer positions for reasons previously said, also employers will think twice about the scheme, so I guess training providers will reap the benefits, amazing really because when I was on the work programme there was no funding and no free courses available. So how is the third option going to be funded.

SailorSam

Just listening to Esther McVey on the radio and she says it not about punishing claimants or about saving money, it's all about helping people back into work.
I think she's pinched that line off IDS.

specialboy

bluenoseam wrote: »

This would be all well & good in an economy whereby there were jobs readily available, however that is pie in the sky stuff in 2014 - there are jobs, but in a number of cases they're out of reach. I get the premise of these moves, but here's the problem, where it should be aimed at hurting those who are genuinely abusing the system, it will hurt those who the sad truth is the system has failed them. This "government" has banged on about jobs for 4 years now but job creation under them has been slow - hell it's taken them 3 years to weed out the fake jobs on the governments OWN site!

The charities have rightly seen that this is punishing low level workers most commonly because we're in a post-recession black zone for them. Think about it like this, for the last 6 years there's been a problem in the middle of the job market, so the place where your graduates go & those who have for various reasons left middle management positions. (Think all those retail supervisors, assistant managers & store managers as well) That has induced many of those to seek work in the lower end of the marketplace, problem being while their target zone for jobs is getting slowly better, they're also competing with fresh faces for it. That's clogging up the entry levels for those people who will require those jobs as ultimately their experience & skillset limits them slightly.

I'm not saying there are no jobs, there are & people should rightly be encouraged into them, but look at it from this perspective. You have a vacancy, you get 100 applications (just for an argument's sake - since the real figure will be much higher), of those 100 applications 25% have a degree, 25% are either in work or are short term unemployed & the remainder are long term unemployed. The truth is for those who are long term unemployed in a lot of cases they're competing against people who are MASSIVELY more appealing to employers.

Your last sentence says it all, that is exactly why the government are saying to the long term unemployed that they need to sort themselves out and make themselves more appealing to employers. The new scheme isn't going to force every claimant into a charity shop, its only the long term ones and they are going to be offered the choice of training, spend all day 9am to 5pm looking for work or do a 6 month community work placement. Where is the wrong in any of those options if the person hasn't been able to get a job in years?

melysion

Is it heck not about punishing claimants! That's exactly what it's about.

These people need JOBS TO APPLY FOR not work placements or fruitless trips to the job centre.

specialboy

These people have been unemployed for a couple of years and many of them would welcome the chance of some training to help them back into work. Instead of slagging the idea off why not come up with some decent alternatives apart from there's no jobs, there arelenty of jobs around but they are being taken by immigrants who fit the bill or short term unemployed who still have the get up and go to get a job. It must be disheartening to go a couple of years without a job knowing your prospects are shrinking by the day but with fresh training, a new upto date cv and more help finding work perhaps it can get them out of a rut. Instead of slagging the idea off at least see how it pans out.

Morglin

Many job centres seem obsessed with the unemployed becoming things like 'Avon distributors' which used to be a hobby for some, but apparently can now be classed as 'self employed' and then it appears, for political spin, that people everywhere are starting sustainable businesses.

(We will, in Britain, end up being one of the most unequal, but fragrant nations on earth!)

The benefits paid remains the same, the bill is rising at a record level, hundreds of millions of pounds have been wasted on crackpot schemes and IT that doesn't work, the UJM has been found to be a scam of massive proportions, and still the government peddles the myth of proper jobs available for all.....:wall:

Charities have pulled out because they want true volunteers, and don't want to displace the ladies that usually work in the shops, and do it eagerly. They also, through bitter experience of the Work Programme know it will not reduce the jobless one iota.

On top of that, it us them that get the grief when claimants cannot fulfil the ever changing rules, and end up with sanctions and attending food banks - which is not a 'good look or advert' for a charity.

Probation Services have already said that they cannot find enough local 'work' for offenders on Community Service, because of the checks that need to be done (and paid for) and the problems with councils arranging the proper insurances needed - so where is all this 'community work' going to appear from? :think:

It won't, so all we will have again is free labour supplied to shops, who will then quite cheerfully shed some of their paid staff, and reduce their wage bill, which will put a smile on the faces of shareholders and executives, at least.

If the government want to 'punish' the unemployed (many if whom paid in for years!), then they should at least make sure there are proper, living wage, permanent jobs there.

At that point, it would be ok to stop funding those who just won't work, but, until then, it's another scheme that is destined to cost extra and then ultimately fail.

As for migrants, many (unskilled) are working for family, gang masters of members of their community group, many are dossing on floors, (because they don't actually earn enough to pay for any sort of housing), and there is plenty of evidence that many are being paid below the minimum wage, cash in hand.

There is also the point that certain organisations advertise their vacancies abroad, but not here and won't employ any Brits.

Lin

SailorSam

melysion wrote: »

Is it heck not about punishing claimants! That's exactly what it's about.

These people need JOBS TO APPLY FOR not work placements or fruitless trips to the job centre.

If i were one of those being told i had to attend the Jobcentre every day i'm sure as already been said many would be happy to do so if there was a proper paid job at the end of it, but while i was only getting JS allowance my main worry would be ............. ' How do i get there'
All over the Country local Jobcentres have closed, if you can't drive and live several miles away with poor public transport, and then with the threat of sanctions hanging over you if you're not there on time.
Perhaps IDS and Esther McVey will give the people who are working for free their taxi fare.