Help to Work Programme comes in today

Morglin

What I find (as an ex DWP employee, and with friends still working there), is that the truly work shy and scammers aren't being affected by this harsh approach one iota.

The people being affected are those that have worked, are trying to find a job, don't understand how to "work" the system, and who are caught up in a ideology that is failing on every level. :mad:

The real scammers know how to work the system, and worry little about sanctions, simply because the majority are working in the black economy (which is increasing at a rate of knots), or they turn to crime to provide money, after telling the JCP to shove their £71 where the dun don't shine (and the good news, for government, when this happens, is that they can state that x people have signed off and become 'self employed'). They neglect to mention the new self employment is often drugs, burglary or shoplifting. :whistle:

The scammers also realise that, if they have children, social services plug many gaps from local authority funding, because the scammers threaten to leave the kids at the council offices (seen it myself), and social workers will do anything rather than have the hassles and expense of that little scenario.

Housing Benefit is still paid, if a "nil income' is declared.

Staff morale is at it's lowest ever, because the last thing any JCP wants is claimants there every day, and they are being driven potty by nutty schemes and targets that manage that achieve so little. :wall:

JCP and the work programme providers know that things aren't working out which is why do many WP are pulling out if their contracts. :doh:

Charities no longer wish to be linked to schemes that are punitive to the wrong people, and ultimately fruitless.

There really needs to a rethink of the whole thing - and it starts with proper education, apprenticeships and training (not these expensive courses where the claimants are just left to read the papers all day, but the WP gets paid anyway).

And, most of all, these training courses and placements should at least offer a real chance of a living wage job, and not just free labour.

Everyone wants the fit and healthy to work, but this is not the way - if it was, the welfare bill would not be at record levels after 4 years of this government.

I am sick of my taxes being wasted on expensive dogma emanating from Dismal Duncan Smith. :mad:

Lin

PS looks like someone has been editing Esther McVeys Wiki entry:

"It appears that somebody with a social conscience has edited Esther McVey’s Wikipedia entry to provide what some might call a more accurate description of her Parliamentary responsibilities.

For a short period earlier today, it seems the entry began: “Esther Louise McVey (born 24 October 1967) is a British Conservative Party politician who has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Wirral West since 2010, and the Assistant Grim Reaper for Disabled People since 2012, second only to Iain Duncan Smith. She was previously a television presenter and businesswoman before deciding to branch out into professional lying and helping disabled people into the grave.” [Italics mine]

The edits have since been erased but at the time of writing, the entry starts: “Esther “no brains” McVey (born 24 October 1767)”.

Also embarrassing for the Employment Minister is the section on her Twitter faux pas during the memorial service on the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster (April 15 this year). It reads: “McVey was criticized by social media users for attacking the Wirral Labour Group in a tweet published at the time a memorial service for the Hillsborough Disaster was being held at Anfield Stadium. She later, in a radio interview with BBC Radio Merseyside, claimed to regret the mistiming of her communication. During this interview, a voice can clearly be heard whispering, ‘Say I didn’t send it’.”

http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/could-the-truth-be-stranger-than-esther-mcveys-wikipedia-entry/

Oops.:rotfl:

SailorSam

I notice you haven't put a signature on the bottom of your profile yet, might i suggest .....

VOTE FOR ME YOUR TORY CANDIDATE BILL JONES
We're all in it together.

BillJones

melysion wrote: »

And for the long term unemployed who don't have this attitude? The long term unemployed that really want to work - i.e. 99.9% of them? Do they deserve to be punished too?.

No, they need help to get into work, but it may need to be a firm-ish shove, as the earlier attempts have not worked.

The rest of your post seems to be strawman arguments, so not worth engaging with, as you are arguing against points that no-one has made.

BillJones

Morglin wrote: »

There really needs to a rethink of the whole thing - and it starts with proper education

I agree. If only the state provided some sort of institutions that people could attend, perhaps from the age of about five to about eighteen, where they were given, for no cost, an education.

It'd be wonderful, as children would have a place to go during the day, and they'd eagerly attend, to make sure that they were employable through their adult life.

red_devil

Its just a punishment nothing about helping people into work.

sadly jobseekers and the sick etc are treated like rats today by the Torys.

topaztiger1983

Cameron says "we are in in it together", really this is not true the toffs are in it together with the government, the Tories only care about the rich people, they could not give a rats backside about the jobseekers or anyone who either does not own their own home or does not have a job

Toff Government for toffs, bloody stupid & don't get me started on immigration

melysion

BillJones wrote: »

No, they need help to get into work, but it may need to be a firm-ish shove, as the earlier attempts have not worked.

The rest of your post seems to be strawman arguments, so not worth engaging with, as you are arguing against points that no-one has made.

I think its worth pointing out that if you need to insult someone to make your point, you have already lost the argument.

I sometimes have respect for your opinion. You certainly have some very valid points but I do wish you weren't so darn rude.

Mr_Falling_Star

As a ex DWP member of staff I echo what Morglin is saying, they are after those working on the black economy. They are also upping the hassle factor so people think they may as well work rather than sign as it is less trouble. I don't have a source for this but anecdotally I have heard that a third of claimants sign off when they finish the WP as the Jobcentre basically sit on them.

JeLaw

Morglin has explained it so well. It's just as I suspected and witnessed during one of my spells claiming benefit. Those who are unwilling to work have other (less legal) means - crime, fraud and/or a large brood of children.

Before anyone, such as Bill Jones, jumps on me, I suffer from a recurring illness - and at times this has flared up to an extent that I have been (temporarily) unable to work. I've worked (and paid tax) as much as I can - and for many years - but being ill is beyond my control.

As a consequence of my patchy CV (I am well-qualified, hold a postgraduate degree, and am very experienced in my role) I have at times struggled to find an employer willing to take me on. Either they run scared of the employment gaps, or tell me I'm "over-qualified" or "too experienced" ("you'll be bored"). Had it not been for a family friend who knew I suited my current position and understood my circumstances, I might be one of the long-term unemployed.

I still fear what will happen should I become ill again (or be made redundant). I know many employers will not consider me with my CV.

It seems that the government (and I hold little faith in Labour either as I seem to recall that a work programme type scheme was introduced by the last government) is looking to turn back the clock over 100 years and take us back to the days of the workhouse. The work programme certainly has echoes of that. And excessively harsh cuts to LHA have left many unable to afford their rent (and I'm not talking about large luxury homes) if and when they lose their jobs or fall ill. I also understand (please correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not sure about this) that help with mortgages has been limited leaving more at risk of homelessness should they lose their job.

I have to admit that in times of desperate worry, I've felt that should I become ill again or lose my job, my only option to avoid homelessness would be prostitution or having a child.

BillJones

melysion wrote: »

I think its worth pointing out that if you need to insult someone to make your point, you have already lost the argument.

I sometimes have respect for your opinion. You certainly have some very valid points but I do wish you weren't so darn rude.

Er, what was rude about my reply? I pointed out that you were arguing against a point that I didn't make, where was the insult?