are these smartcar CCTV wardens allowed to park on double yellow to gather "evidence"

Inch_High_2

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Because the matter of parking on double yellows and any exemptions allowed is nothing to do with their enforcement policy, it's a matter of law contained in the relevant Acts of Parliament. Councils have no power to vary or over-ride those Acts any more than they have the power to make burglary legal in their town.

But as I posted earlier, some places have decriminalised it. The matter is no longer dealt with by the police so it appears they can do as they wish.
There must have been so change in parliament.

TrickyWicky

InsideInsurance wrote: »

Really? there are plenty of cases of the police getting tickets or being clamped

Yes and none of them are enforced i can assure you. Even the civil service are known to get 'crown' cars taken away for non displaying of tax discs yet they're soon released from the pound when the manager of the dept gives his chums at the council a call.

Inch_High wrote: »

In some cities parking has been decriminalised so the police can't enforce parking.

The police can still enforce code 99 (zebra crossings) and obstruction. Of course obstruction can mean many things - including yellow lines.

TrickyWicky

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Because the matter of parking on double yellows and any exemptions allowed is nothing to do with their enforcement policy, it's a matter of law contained in the relevant Acts of Parliament. Councils have no power to vary or over-ride those Acts any more than they have the power to make burglary legal in their town.

Councils can't adjust the law you are correct but they can decide what they will or will not enforce.

Joe_Horner

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Councils can't adjust the law you are correct but they can decide what they will or will not enforce.

Agreed. Hence my comment about requiring a private prosecution if someone wanted to do anything about it - and the suggestion (because it really doesn't bother me) that such action would be excessive

Inch_High_2

TrickyWicky wrote: »

The police can still enforce code 99 (zebra crossings) and obstruction. Of course obstruction can mean many things - including yellow lines.

Code 99 is a regional code others would call it 947.

As for the yellow lines if you say so but doubles mean no waiting so you'd have to prove an actual obstruction.

TrickyWicky

Inch_High wrote: »

As for the yellow lines if you say so but doubles mean no waiting so you'd have to prove an actual obstruction.

No, the motorist would have to prove the lack of an obstruction - to a judge.

londonTiger

Inch_High wrote: »

But as I posted earlier, some places have decriminalised it. The matter is no longer dealt with by the police so it appears they can do as they wish.
There must have been so change in parliament.

My understanding of decriminalised is that they can't lock you up for it but can fine you.

E.g. weed decriminalised, you can't go to prison but they can confiscate it and drop it into the drain or give you a fine.

DaveF327

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Because the matter of parking on double yellows and any exemptions allowed is nothing to do with their enforcement policy, it's a matter of law contained in the relevant Acts of Parliament. Councils have no power to vary or over-ride those Acts

You misunderstand the nature of legislation. Many acts of parliament give legal power to secondary legislation (such as statutory instruments or local council traffic regulation orders), at which point any contravention of such an instrument or order becomes an offence (or contravention subject to civil enforcement).

While councils cannot override acts of parliament, you will find that the traffic regulation orders they make can, and do, contain any exemption or variation that they feel is necessary. All these orders are made in full compliance with the relevant acts. In most cases, this will be under section 5 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. The scope of that section gives very flexible and wide ranging powers for various reasons which are highly subjective in favour of the council. In a major city near me, there is even a special parking space labelled "lord mayor parking only". Not only did they mark out a space at the town hall to that effect, but a full and legal traffic regulation order to that effect is in force.

Joe_Horner

DaveF327 wrote: »

You misunderstand the nature of legislation. Many acts of parliament give legal power to secondary legislation (such as statutory instruments or local council traffic regulation orders), at which point any contravention of such an instrument or order becomes an offence (or contravention subject to civil enforcement).

While councils cannot override acts of parliament, you will find that the traffic regulation orders they make can, and do, contain any exemption or variation that they feel is necessary. All these orders are made in full compliance with the relevant acts. In most cases, this will be under section 5 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. The scope of that section gives very flexible and wide ranging powers for various reasons which are highly subjective in favour of the council. In a major city near me, there is even a special parking space labelled "lord mayor parking only". Not only did they mark out a space at the town hall to that effect, but a full and legal traffic regulation order to that effect is in force.

I'm fully aware of the nature of legislation.

In this case, a traffic authority can create a TRO (under s.1 of the RTRA, not s.5 btw) but what they can't do is vary the meaning of the standard signs contained in the TSRGD 2002 (SI 2002 No 3113). which have been prescribed by the Secretary of State. If they could then the road network would be become chaos, with the same signs meaning different things in different areas!

Double yellow lines are a standard sign prescribed in the TSRGD (diagram 1018.1) with a meaning defined as "waiting of vehicles on a side of a length of road prohibited at any time during a period of at least 4 consecutive months" (or an alternative meaning relating to lay-bys).

Any variation or exceptions to that no waiting road marking must be signified by a sign of the type shown in diagram 650.1, (which relates to taxis).

In order to provide an exception for ANPR Smart cars, they would have to (a) include that exception in the TRO, (b) apply to the secretary of State for permission to display a non-standard road sign, of the type in diagram 650.1, with its text altered to "at any time except ANPR Smart Cars" and (c) display those signs at regular intervals.


I don't know the area but I bet they don't have such signs

Inch_High_2

londonTiger wrote: »

My understanding of decriminalised is that they can't lock you up for it but can fine you.

E.g. weed decriminalised, you can't go to prison but they can confiscate it and drop it into the drain or give you a fine.

That's never been the official way to do it. Back to your reading.