driver awareness course

Muscle750

Today my son got stopped by the plod who were stood with a speed camera and given a ticket for doin 38 mph in a 30mph. Later on it was discovered that a half hidden sign had been placed further up the road telling people the limit had been reduced from 40 mph.
The plod in Nottingham where this took place are it appears in the local press are having a zero tolerance on this road my son was pulled on two people were killed last month after they hit a tree and three people have been arrested on driving offences in relation to the incident In the press someone said that there have been three serious accidents on this very spot over the last few years and the speed limit has now only been reduced after the last crash and informing the general public by a half hidden sign in a bush this to me is totally wrong and to people who don't know the area and relying on their sat nav as he was as he was on a visit for a job interview. it seems the rather above their platform plod was very arrogant and quite rude and said that they suggested he took the driver awareness course obviously if he'd been going 40 or 50 this I don't think would have been a option and it would have been three points and £60 Now he has only been driving a year and I understand that 6 points and his licence is revoked however if he takes the course on the date and time he says he will no points will be put on I understand he will be able to take the course locally looking at our local area the cost is £74 however the plod told him it would cost him £95 again confusing or do we pay the Nottingham area fee yet take it in our local area
I would if I knew he would win go to court and argue that the road was always 40 mph and after three serious accidents the authorities have decided to inform the general public by a half hidden sign in a bush sadly he didn't get a photo of it so we don't have any proof. I agree he was in the wrong but I don't think the authorities are totally blameless he was pretty upset when he come home and to be honest I don't blame him seems the plod said he was under caution and anything he said would be noted etc when he said No the plod said are you quite sure and smirked

anotherbaldrick

If the speed limit had been dropped there would be new legal visible signs stating the current speed restriction on the road, was your son driving on autopilot that they did not register. The additional signs you say were half hidden should have lit up a warning in his head to pay attention particularly as you say he is not familiar with the road

Iceweasel

Do you really mean that there was a sign saying that the speed had been reduced from 40?

What kind of sign is that?

I've never heard of such a sign, and I don't think that there is such a thing.

If the speed is 30 there must be a 30 sign conforming to the relevant regulations - there may even have to be 2 signs one on each side of the carriageway.

http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm

daveyjp

Going to court is a risky business especially as there is no requirement to sign a speed limit reduction, so your defence is shaky. There would have been other clues as to the new speed limit, but habits on familiar roads are hard to shake. The ABD link gives a case in Kidderminster wher advisory signs weren't provided at all, but you say there was a sign, albeit partly obscured.

As good observation is a key driving skill admitting you didn't know the speed limit on a section of road isn't a good point to start from in front of the Magistrate.

He should accept his driving wasn't up to scratch and do the course.

Tigsteroonie

Muscle750 wrote: »

to people who don't know the area and relying on their sat nav as he was as he was on a visit for a job interview.

How on earth did we manage before satnavs? Oh yes, that's right, we'd look for the road signs ... Nobody should rely on their satnav for speed limit information - it can be wrong, it can be out of date, it can be temporarily changed. I think your son would benefit from an Awareness Course :cool:

neilmcl

Couple of things OP. Any chance you can edit your post with some punctuation, paragraphs etc, it'll make it a lot easier for people to read. Also, what road is this exactly?

Lec123_2

Would have had 40 signs if it was a 40mph road wouldn't it? No 40 signs would have mean't the presumption of it being a 30 road therefore?

Your son is best off doing the course, 3 points at that age would hammer his insurance.

Joe_Horner

Iceweasel wrote: »

Do you really mean that there was a sign saying that the speed had been reduced from 40?

What kind of sign is that?

I've never heard of such a sign, and I don't think that there is such a thing.

Yes there is. They sometimes use "new 30MPH speed limit in force" signs where a higher limit has been dropped and you're entering the new limit from an existing 30 limit.

It's diagram 7032 of the 2003 edition of the TSRDG:



Say, for example, a stretch of road used to be 40, dropping to 30 in a built-up area but has now been changed to 30. They can use the "new 30 limit" sign to warn people driving FROM the old 30 limit that it's changed.

But that sign is only advisory and isn't compulsory so it doesn't matter if it's missing or hidden. You also shouldn't be relying on satnav to tell you what the speed is because if a change is made your clever little box isn't going to know about it, which is absolutely no excuse in law.

Assuming the madatory signs are correct in the area, the only thing that matters is the last official speed limit sign you passed.

scotsbob

If the sign is, as you say, half hidden, then it is half visible. He should have seen it.
Have you seen it? Is it really "half hidden" or could that be an exaggerated expression?

Iceweasel

Thanks for that Joe - I knew about that one - but it would also need the 30mph roundels too wouldn't it?

I would expect that red sign to be displayed first then 30 signs at the exact point where the limit drops from 40.

The OP clearly said there was a half hidden sign had been placed further up the road telling people the limit had been reduced from 40 mph.

My comment was about a sign saying "speed reduced from 40mph"

I imagine that a driver going the other way would see a sign saying 40mph i.e the point of entry to the 40mph should be the exact same position as the leaving 40mph and entering the 30mph.

The OP should take a photo of this sign as it happened today and I can't imagine the hedge has been removed or trimmed.

There MUST be something permanent to let everyone know that the speed limit is 30.

Or would they just have taken the old 40mph signs away?

In a built up area with street lights the lack of a 40mph sign means that the limit is 30mph - of course.

I'm sure they tell folks that at an awareness course.

matttye

Cant you drive out to the location yourself and see what signage there is, or have a look on Google Street View and see if there are any updated photos?

If there were appropriate signs specifying the 30mph speed limit then your son doesn't have a leg to stand on. There's no requirement for the additional speed reduction sign.