POPLA appeal - ATHENA/LIDL - Advice please

minimii123

I received a PCN for an overstay (as a genuine customer)in a car park at my local Lidl. After reading through the information and advice posted here I sent a letter to the PPC using the template posted at the beginning of this forum. Not surprisingly I received a rejection letter with a POPLA code. I have noticed that my case is very similar to that of Shepss as the rejection letter states: "you agreed to the contractual terms detailed on the signage"

Would I be correct in sending the same POPLA appeal as Shepss - in particular quoting the point below?

"This charge is not a contractually agreed sum. It is a disguised breach and is not a genuine pre estimate of loss".

Thank you for reading and for any advice you may be able to give.

ColliesCarer

More than likely but take a look at Shepss's thread and in particular the picture of the sign as it's the sign the PPC rely on in terms of what they are alleging was the contract entered into.

Is this the same as your Lidl?
If you're not sure print a copy of the sign off and go back and take a look - if it's different take a photo and post it up here (leaving off the http:// ) as Newbies aren't allowed to post direct links.While there take a look too at where the signs are located, how easy/difficult it would be for a driver to spot them, are there any signs near the shop entrance etc etc - this will enable you to personalise your signage point with specific info relating to the actual site.

Edit - should just add the reason for raising the point about the signs is that Athena/Lidl appear to be using two different types of signs at different stores

minimii123

Thank you for replying. I will go and have a look tomorrow to see if it is the same.

Umkomaas

minimii123 wrote: »

Thank you for replying. I will go and have a look tomorrow to see if it is the same.

Does your paperwork/ticket from the Athena mention 'contravention', 'breach', or similar?

Have you complained vociferously to Lidl? Demanding to see the manager by store visit, by letter, by email, by writing to their CEO at HQ, by bombarding their Facebook page? All legitimate tactics for a genuine customer.

minimii123

ColliesCarer wrote: »

More than likely but take a look at Shepss's thread and in particular the picture of the sign as it's the sign the PPC rely on in terms of what they are alleging was the contract entered into.

Is this the same as your Lidl?
If you're not sure print a copy of the sign off and go back and take a look - if it's different take a photo and post it up here (leaving off the http:// ) as Newbies aren't allowed to post direct links.While there take a look too at where the signs are located, how easy/difficult it would be for a driver to spot them, are there any signs near the shop entrance etc etc - this will enable you to personalise your signage point with specific info relating to the actual site.

Edit - should just add the reason for raising the point about the signs is that Athena/Lidl appear to be using two different types of signs at different stores

Hi I managed to get a picture of the sign - this is the link:
tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8wyskx&s=8
It looks like the wording is the same as that posted by Shepss.

There were a number of signs dotted around the parking area on posts and they were noticeable if that was actually what a driver was concentrating on looking for rather than searching out a parking space. The spot where my car was parked didn't have a notice directly in front of it. I didn't notice a sign at the entrance to the shop.

minimii123

Umkomaas wrote: »

Does your paperwork/ticket from the Athena mention 'contravention', 'breach', or similar?

Have you complained vociferously to Lidl? Demanding to see the manager by store visit, by letter, by email, by writing to their CEO at HQ, by bombarding their Facebook page? All legitimate tactics for a genuine customer.

I can't see any mention of 'breach' 'contravention' , the PCN just says
"Because of CCTV evidence there is reasonable cause to believe that according to these terms (on the signage) a charge is due"

Then the rejection letter says "There are sufficient number of signs in the car park, which clearly state that if you fail to comply with the terms you will be liable to pay a parking charge. When you drove into the car park and parked your vehicle, you agreed to the contractual terms detailed on the signage"

I wasn't sure if it was too late to send a letter to the store manager but will try that tactic as well, thank you for pointing this out.

ColliesCarer

Here's the photo

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8wyskx&s=8

Yes that is the same wording as the sign for shepss except the free time allowed for yours is 90 minutes whereas the other was for only 60 mins.

So that POPLA appeal will only require a few changes to things like the times and what you discovered about the lack of signage to personalize it for your appeal.

The issue about whether it is a breach/contravention or contractual terms has been covered in that appeal.

They say it's a contractual term but it's not - it's really a disguised breach of contract because they provide no means to pay and no tariffs with various amounts of times for various prices are given.
By charging the same lump sum for any amount of time over the 90 minutes and for returning within 2 hours they give themselves away - so they must be able to demonstrate it's a genuine pre estimate of loss - and they can't - because what loss can there be for sligtly overstaying your welcome in a free car park

Some contacts for you
The Uk managing director for Lidl is Ronny.Gottschlich@lidl.co.uk
Their press office is pressoffice@lidl.co.uk and the press officeer is Clare Norman

minimii123

Thank you so much! I will post my letter to the store and the POPLA appeal here for checking once I have completed it.

Just one thing I'm not sure about:I didn't keep my shopping receipt as I didn't need it. If I download a copy of my bank statement to show/send to the store manager would this suffice as proof of shopping in the store?

ColliesCarer

hi minimii
Yes it will but make sure you blank out personal info and any other details they don't need to see. And if you're a regular shopper there make sure you mention that as well.
You won't need to provide proof of being a genuine customer for your POPLA appeal by the way - they don't do mitigation and the appeal grounds already in the appeal will be enough .

Umkomaas

Just caught up with this.

There are sufficient number of signs in the car park, which clearly state that if you fail to comply with the terms you will be liable to pay a parking charge.

Just the job - this is 'breach' or 'contravention' by any other name. So it's GPEOL all the way down the line.

Perfect!

minimii123

ColliesCarer wrote: »

hi minimii
Yes it will but make sure you blank out personal info and any other details they don't need to see. And if you're a regular shopper there make sure you mention that as well.
You won't need to provide proof of being a genuine customer for your POPLA appeal by the way - they don't do mitigation and the appeal grounds already in the appeal will be enough .

Does this letter to the MD of Lidl below look ok? I wanted to add that I was considering becoming a regular shopper and that my first visit to the store had turned into a distressing situation but wasn't sure how to put it. I wondered about adding it to the 2nd paragraph somewhere?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to make an official complaint to you because the actions of your agent are unlawful and my understanding is that Lidl are jointly and severally liable for those actions. The situation is that Athena have just refused my appeal against a private 'parking ticket' sent to me in their capacity as your agents, which alleged my car 'overstayed' in a Lidl car park.

I was a genuine shopper in your store and I am very upset about this entire episode
I am horrified that Lidl can allow such a notorious firm to harass customers on your behalf. I do not have my receipt now because I discarded it as normal, since I had no idea about any parking restriction - or indeed any possibility of getting a 'parking ticket' - until I was suddenly sent a £90 demand by your agents, Athena. I have however attached a copy of my redacted bank statement clearly showing my purchase transaction at Lidl’s on the day in question.

I have researched the matter and intend to escalate my challenge against Athena to the independent stage (Parking on Private Land Appeals). However, I am giving Lidl the chance to quash the fake PCN once and for all. My view is that ostensibly 'free' ANPR enforcement of parking spaces by third parties is incompatible with the customer service ethic of Lidl. I have included Lidl’s code of conduct as stated on the website and would point out that the first and last points of this prove that in my case as a genuine customer this code has not been fulfilled. I therefore require this 'parking ticket' to be duly cancelled.
• Our customers are the most important people to our Company. Their wishes are paramount and shape the way we operate.
• We strive to offer our customers full availability across our entire product range at all times.
• We serve our customers in a friendly, respectful and honest manner.
• We satisfy our customers’ queries, requests and issues in a timely manner.
• We always ensure for our customers’ quality and freshness at the best price.
• We offer our customers clean and tidy stores at all times.
• We provide our customers with a convenient and pleasant shopping experience.

Our whole family and friends are minded not to return to Lidl if this is how genuine customers -are treated. I think I deserve an apology at the very least, and I would sincerely hope that Lidl’s MD will treat this complaint as a matter of importance and urgency deserving of a genuine Lidl customer.

yours,