Disputed cancellation of orange contract

tek62

Hello, new user please excuse any mistakes.


I took out a 30 day rolling contract for an orange mobile for my daughter in April 2012 as she was then 16. She got a new phone Dec. 13 and a new contract with Virgin so both she and I spoke to Orange on phone in Dec. to cancel contract, making it very clear that she was definitely cancelling as she already had a new phone and contract. However, she also requested a PAC which she then didn't use - but I did follow up with a written cancellation letter normal mail later in Dec. stating that she may choose not to use the PAC. I let Jan's DD go through per 30 days notice period and then cancelled it.
They now state I owe them 3 months money and have ignored the letter of complaint and copy of Dec's cancellation letter that I sent them by recorded delivery, after getting nowhere on phone for 20 minutes and them refusing to ring me back, stating that cancellation was not processed as she hadn't used PAC. I've now had a letter from Network Finance Recovery (ignoring mine) saying that late payments have been reg. on my credit file and that ultimately I will have a default registered.
My questions are: 1. Is it worth continuing to fight this for £58.40 (breakdown of this they have not specified). 2. Can I register a notice of dispute with the credit ref. agencies, is this worthwhile? 3. Could I sue THEM in small claims court for trashing my credit score? Any advice really appreciated, im stressed out!

mobilejunkie

3) Absolutely no case for suing; if the PAC code expires unused the contract simply continues until you request and use another one or cancel the contract; that's how it works. You can't do both.

2) I doubt it; ultimately you are liable and have no case. Orange's complete lack of customer interest doesn't change the fact that you failed to give notice to terminate the contract (having failed to exercise the PAC code).

1) The longer you fight, the more the costs will escalate. Although I doubt you'd win, all you could do is make take the comlaint to CISAS (assuming it is 8 weeks since they would have received your formal complaint letter), emphasing that they have completely ignored your letters and requesting they write off the debt and ensure that your credit files are repaired. I think it unlikely that would work, but there's not much else you do.

grumbler

mobilejunkie wrote: »

...that's how it works.

Absolutely. However, this is not what the T&C say.

2) Orange's complete lack of customer interest doesn't change the fact that you failed to give notice to terminate the contract (having failed to exercise the PAC code).

This is arguable if Orange failed to explain this to the customer as (again) the T&C say nothing about using the PAC.

1) The longer you fight, the more the costs will escalate. Although I doubt you'd win, all you could do is make take the comlaint to CISAS (assuming it is 8 weeks since they would have received your formal complaint letter), emphasing that they have completely ignored your letters and requesting they write off the debt and ensure that your credit files are repaired. I think it unlikely that would work, but there's not much else you do.

Agreed.

Some old thread on this malicious Orange's practice: PAC Codes and Oranges Way to Stop You Cancelling

tek62

Belated thanks for your replies mobilejunkie and grumbler. I decided to persevere as both daughter & I had stated she was definitely cancelling contract before she requested PAC. At no time were we advised that if the PAC wasn't used within 30 days then contract would continue, which looking at old threads from grumbler was contrary to Ofcom regs. I had also followed up with a letter 7 days later stating that contract was to be cancelled, and that daughter may choose not to use PAC. So, I rang customer services again, got cut off again and passed around again, then told I needed to ring Billing. I refused to run up any more of my phone bill, so they said I could ring from an EE shop. When I did, repeated whole story, got transferred, cut off, rang again. This time - a miracle! Someone listened, cancelled the contract there and then, credited my account with the amount they were threatening legal action for, and was thoroughly nice. Amazing!:j

Anoneemoose

To be honest, it is something I used to do when I worked there If I could see it was a genuine mistake. For e.g. if I could see the phone hadn't been used since pac request.

Having said that, they do send a letter out automatically for every pac request which explains what the pac means. As mobilejunkie said though, if you didn't use the pac then really, you should have called again to tell them you weren't going to. I appreciate you sent a letter but if the original one was not recorded, it can take an age to get through to the right team, if it is even delivered at all!

Glad you got it sorted though!

corf999

Stating your definitely cancelling when requesting a pac code is not cancelling your contract. You got lucky.

grumbler

corf999 wrote: »

Stating your definitely cancelling when requesting a pac code is not cancelling your contract.

The T&C that are binding for both parties seem to disagree with you.

Anoneemoose

grumbler wrote: »

The T&C that a binding for both parties seem to disagree with you.

But they do tell you - they tell you on the call and in a letter.

I also believe it is the same with every network, not just Orange.

grumbler

Anoneemoose wrote: »

But they do tell you - they tell you on the call

Ah, they definitely do if you say so. Even if this really is the case, what they say can't override the T&C.

and in a letter.

It's a year since I left Orange, but I don't recall receiving any letter from them - and I still have all the most recent paperwork I received from them.

I also believe it is the same with every network

It would be more correct to say 'has to be'. Unfortunately practice is often different from theory.

corf999

I was under the impression that requesting a PAC code initiates the migration process, When you use the PAC code it then initiates the account cancellation/closure.

If the user has initiated a cancellation they would not have received a PAC code.

So by asking for a PAC code after stating she was cancelling would as far as I can see cancel any cancellation request and initiate a Migration request, therefore not a cancellation.

Anoneemoose

grumbler wrote: »

Ah, they definitely do if you say so.

Any need for the sarcasm?? I'm not naive enough to think everyone does this. However, if a customer requests a pac, it is "no skin off their nose" for advisors to tell them what will happen if the pac isn't used. And if a customer says they want to cancel anyway, it ain't too difficult a conversation for the advisor to have to say they will have to phone back.

Even if this really is the case, what they say can't override the T&C. T&C state customers have to give 'at least one month's notice'. If the customer is told that by not using a PAC, they will have to give another months notice if they decide to disconnect, then that is their choice to make.

It's a year since I left Orange, but I don't recall receiving any letter from them - and I still have all the most recent paperwork I received from them.

It's funny how customers say they never receive letters, but then are infuriated when companies don't get theirs. Of course, there will always be some that don't reach them, but they are sent out, automatically. I worked in numerous departments when I was there so I know how these were done. Also, on forums like this, you always get the bad stories, not the ones where things go smoothly - which believe it or not, the majority of the time.

It would be more correct to say 'has to be'. Unfortunately practice is often different from theory.

Not very good at the quoting.