Electric Car

buglawton

bigjl wrote: »

So they should give you the battery for free?

Stop talking nonsense.

The battery lease idea is part of the master plan that Renault have where on longer journeys service stations on motorways or autoroutes have automated battery removal stations. So that you drive in with a depleted battery. Drive into the booth and the battery is removed from below and a charged one put in its place.

And when you sell your car the new owner would simply lease a battery for themselves.

It really isn't that complicated an idea.

Master plan... :rotfl: hmmp, believe it when I see it.

But you raised a valid issue:

Tesla recently trumpeted a deal for UK wide charging station network:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2632233/Super-motorways-charging-stations-electric-cars-encourage-people-switch-battery-powered-vehicles.html
....plans to cover M25, and parts of M20, M4, M1 and M6 by end of year [ 2014 - that's us, folks!! ]

Which would no doubt be a system totally incompatible with Renault's etc...
A bit like when railways were first invented in Britain and we had different gauges of railway until the Whigs or whatever government we had then knocked heads together....

Now, where is our lovely present day government to get this thing standardised, and not allow incompatible charging stations (which will fail) to start and impose standards instead (which will succeed).

Er.... nowhere... or preparing for the Summer recess already.

iolanthe07

What about the pollution from making those batteries?

But the point is that the elements that go into making the battery can be re-cycled into new batteries, so pollution from the manufactoring process will decrease sharply over time.

Buellguy

buglawton wrote: »

Master plan... :rotfl: hmmp, believe it when I see it.

But you raised a valid issue:

Tesla recently trumpeted a deal for UK wide charging station network:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2632233/Super-motorways-charging-stations-electric-cars-encourage-people-switch-battery-powered-vehicles.html
....plans to cover M25, and parts of M20, M4, M1 and M6 by end of year [ 2014 - that's us, folks!! ]

Which would no doubt be a system totally incompatible with Renault's etc...
A bit like when railways were first invented in Britain and we had different gauges of railway until the Whigs or whatever government we had then knocked heads together....

Now, where is our lovely present day government to get this thing standardised, and not allow incompatible charging stations (which will fail) to start and impose standards instead (which will succeed).

Er.... nowhere... or preparing for the Summer recess already.

My red.... That is NOT UK wide

orrery

forgotmyname wrote: »

No mention of the pollution and the mega mileage it will take to balance out the damage to the enviroment from making the batteries?

Well, your post was unclear about what the damage was (whatever it is clearly doesn't relate to driving a distance at 35mph).

If it relates to energy usage then that doesn't have to be carbon-derived energy.

If we want a zero-carbon future (and if we don't - we probably die), then we have to got off our bottoms and make the changes necessary to achieve it. I've gone ahead and installed solar PV, a log-burning stove, a new super-efficient boiler, solar water heating (currently awaiting my plumber getting a de-strat pump working) and I now plan to do as much of my mileage on solar/nuclear electric as I can (I don't buy the notion that we have to give our cars up completely). Thus far I've cut my gas usage by 75% as measured over the last 2 months, compared to 1 year ago). I plan to install a Tado controller next to improve it further

The last time I heard the "it costs XXX in CO2 to make them" story it was about solar panels. It is simple to work out with a spreadsheet that - once you have made the basic investment in renewable energy, then the energy you are generating can be used to build the next set of renewables and is effectively CO2 free (we are now way past that point with solar). Eventually that CO2-free contribution overtakes the CO2 creating contribution and the levels of CO2 start to drop (but that isn't going to happen until 2050 at the earliest) even with the most optimistic predictions. Earliest measurements indicate 285ppm CO2, 300 to 350 during the industrial revolution, we've just passed 400ppm and it can't now be reversed until we have exceeded 450ppm. If we don't pull our socks up, we are in big, big trouble.

Mobeer

Buellguy wrote: »

My red.... That is NOT UK wide

To be fair the article says:
"The first network will stretch from Dover to London along the M20, cover the entire M25 and follow the M4 from London to Bristol and the M1 and M6 to Manchester via Birmingham."

so the aspiration is a nationwide network, and parts to be done by end 2014

topdaddy_2

buglawton wrote: »

Master plan... :rotfl: hmmp, believe it when I see it.

But you raised a valid issue:

Tesla recently trumpeted a deal for UK wide charging station network:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2632233/Super-motorways-charging-stations-electric-cars-encourage-people-switch-battery-powered-vehicles.html
....plans to cover M25, and parts of M20, M4, M1 and M6 by end of year [ 2014 - that's us, folks!! ]

Which would no doubt be a system totally incompatible with Renault's etc...
A bit like when railways were first invented in Britain and we had different gauges of railway until the Whigs or whatever government we had then knocked heads together....

Now, where is our lovely present day government to get this thing standardised, and not allow incompatible charging stations (which will fail) to start and impose standards instead (which will succeed).

Er.... nowhere... or preparing for the Summer recess already.

You cant bad mouth the system, biggy will get upset.

LandyAndy

orrery wrote: »

If we want a zero-carbon future (and if we don't - we probably die), then we have to got off our bottoms and make the changes necessary to achieve it..

I'm certain we'll die whatever we do.

buglawton

topdaddy wrote: »

You cant bad mouth the system, biggy will get upset.

Biggy would have to get out of bed first.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

orrery wrote: »

Well, your post was unclear about what the damage was (whatever it is clearly doesn't relate to driving a distance at 35mph).

If it relates to energy usage then that doesn't have to be carbon-derived energy.

If we want a zero-carbon future (and if we don't - we probably die), then we have to got off our bottoms and make the changes necessary to achieve it. I've gone ahead and installed solar PV, a log-burning stove, a new super-efficient boiler, solar water heating (currently awaiting my plumber getting a de-strat pump working) and I now plan to do as much of my mileage on solar/nuclear electric as I can (I don't buy the notion that we have to give our cars up completely). Thus far I've cut my gas usage by 75% as measured over the last 2 months, compared to 1 year ago). I plan to install a Tado controller next to improve it further

The last time I heard the "it costs XXX in CO2 to make them" story it was about solar panels. It is simple to work out with a spreadsheet that - once you have made the basic investment in renewable energy, then the energy you are generating can be used to build the next set of renewables and is effectively CO2 free (we are now way past that point with solar). Eventually that CO2-free contribution overtakes the CO2 creating contribution and the levels of CO2 start to drop (but that isn't going to happen until 2050 at the earliest) even with the most optimistic predictions. Earliest measurements indicate 285ppm CO2, 300 to 350 during the industrial revolution, we've just passed 400ppm and it can't now be reversed until we have exceeded 450ppm. If we don't pull our socks up, we are in big, big trouble.

LOL a zero carbon future, you really have been brainwashed by what our government tells you!

CO2 has been drilled home to us that its the most biggest risk to the planet, and were creating it, and in part thats true, but atmospheric methane is higher on that list a natural gas the earth and its organisms produces, and a fuel of choice, methane is produce by active volcano's too which are expelled into the atmosphere, via vents in and around them and natural methane wells underground,they cannot be plugged only tapped into, couple that with mega tons of waste that has already been buried in countries globally, and its ever increasing amounts as more the populous grows and wastes, and not all can be recycled remember so we have to store it somewhere, methane via decaying rotting things we produce adds to atmospheric methane further more increasing the earth greenhouse gas runaway effect, methane speeds up greenhouse effect more than CO2 does as it accounts for about HALF of the earths thermal inertia this is our biggest risk above CO2 but rarely spoken of because it cannot be controlled as effectively as with CO2 us humans and animals create can be, over natural elemant production.

Methane ultimately is converted in our higher stratosphere into CO2 which fall back to earth into our water mass and land expelled agained into the atmosphere, amoung other natural CO2 production cycles.

i mean ofcourse we can try and limit the excess methane and CO2 levels by introducing medicenes to our live stocks, storing animal waste by composting it at storage facilities, be better at detecting and be more effecient at repairing gas leaks and tax vehicles with higher outputs of CO2 and businesses, but there will never be a zero CO2 future as long there is a human and organic life on earth.

Even if our lives and habbits change in the near future and the human man made production of CO2 reduces dramatically, thats not to say that Earth wont continue down its path of self destruction with the greenhouse gas runaway, you only have to look at venus and think OK that planet has died as a result of what we are or maybe going through now greenhouse gas runaway, was or is there anyway of stopping it? i dont think there is and i would be a fool to believe otherwise when i seen no other examples of it ever being stopped.

orrery

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

LOL a zero carbon future, you really have been brainwashed by what our government tells you! ....

..... maybe going through now greenhouse gas runaway, was or is there anyway of stopping it? i dont think there is and i would be a fool to believe otherwise when i seen no other examples of it ever being stopped.

No, not by the government - who are backing off from subsidies designed to make progress because it is putting the price of energy up. But you might start by reading the latest report jointly authored by the Royal Institution and US National Academy of Sciences, which outlines the real issues.

And yes, methane is a problem and this might mitigate in favour of reducing the proportion of meat consumption (and this in turn will help with releasing land for other uses, which will also be an issue).

Runaway - is a real worry, but we don't know what level of CO2 (... soot from diesels, methane) the earth can sustain before we hit runaway.

So we have a choice: either give up and go home, or try to do something about it. I can see which you've chosen, but I've made my decision because I'd like to see my 6 month old granddaughter grow up in a pleasant world.

I'm reminded of the cartoon of a large American guy sat in the audience at a climate-change conference shouting at the speaker:
"Hey, what if this is all a hoax and we make the world a better place for nothing?"