Query about disabled bay parking fine Asda

Truly_Wracked_Off

Current Position: Have finally sent my initial letter of appeal (12 May) to Smart Parking. Thanks to everyone for the invaluable help to date. If I’d received a positive response from Asda’s CEO, however, this leg of the operation would've been unnecessary.

My letter to the CEO (Mr Clarke) seeking his intervention, arrived at Asda HQ on 23 May and after 10 days without a courtesy confirmation of its receipt, I queried its progress. On 07 May, Asda’s Directorate confirmed a letter was sent for printing on 03 May, saying it should have been despatched on 04 May and would be with me within the week. 21 days have passed, it’s now 14 May and still nothing. Hey nonney no.

History of Appeal to Asda: On the day of the incident, the Store Manager wasn’t on site. Staff said he’d phone me the following day, but he didn’t, delegating the task instead to an employee who said nothing could be done to overrule the charge. I suspect this was standard procedure.

Meeting with the Manager: I visited the store on 16 April but it was fruitless. The manager was a dismissive ‘jobsworth’. He said it didn’t matter what the circumstances were. The driver didn’t have the requisite badge and that was that. He said he’d no sympathy for anyone parking in a disabled bay, or how far they might have to walk, irrespective of the weather, brevity of their stay etc and dismissed out-of-hand the prospect of mitigating circumstances ever playing a part such as health. Then he claimed the rigidity of Asda’s policy was, in fact, an illustration of ‘good customer care’! Difficult to reconcile this claim against his lack of empathy demonstrated towards an elderly customer’s plight.

He said the Warden had no right to imply the charge might be overruled, then said he couldn’t understand why staff had claimed the car park was Council owned. He then stressed, once again, nothing could be done. I stood my ground, however, and appealed to him, saying I couldn’t believe there wasn’t a role for management discretion at Asda. Eventually, he said he’d contact the Car Park Warden before speaking to Head Office. The following day, he rang to confirm nothing had changed. He said the only way the charge could be rescinded was for him to provide a blue badge reference number to the PPC, end of story and advised a letter of appeal be sent instead.

Letter to Asda’s CEO – Andy Clarke: This was an emotive appeal on behalf of the driver which also highlighted some of Asda’s shortcomings. It included the following headings:

Consideration of a Parking Charge; Overview of the Incident; Car Park Warden; Land Ownership; Manager’s Decision; Medical Condition; Excessive Charge; Invoice & Parking Ticket; Restrictions & Signage; Bold Signage; Management Discretion.

There is, of course, always the off chance that the CEO’s response has gone astray, so they must be given the benefit of the doubt. That means another Email to HQ then. Glory hallelujah! Too jiggered for that tonight, so it’s up there on tomorrow’s ’to do’ list. Will update with responses from Asda and S.Parking as and when.

Sincerely, T.W.O.

atilla

I do hope you realise that emails to Andy Clarke don't get to him?

Also, did you get the name of the manager you spoke to?
He's lied to you so i'd be escalating it upwards.

ColliesCarer

Truly_Wracked_Off wrote: »

Letter to Asda’s CEO – Andy Clarke: This was an emotive appeal on behalf of the driver which also highlighted some of Asda’s shortcomings. It included the following headings:

Consideration of a Parking Charge; Overview of the Incident; Car Park Warden; Land Ownership; Manager’s Decision; Medical Condition; Excessive Charge; Invoice & Parking Ticket; Restrictions & Signage; Bold Signage; Management Discretion.

Where are the magic words "protected characteristics under EA 2010" in that list? They are not dependent on having a BB

Truly_Wracked_Off

Thanks for your interest Atilla and yes, I’m aware that CEO’s have a team to manage the myriad complaints that must come winging their way. If the team’s doing its job properly however, it must be on message. This means it’s the CEO’s mouthpiece so technically, if things are badly managed on behalf of a CEO, the responsibility lies with none other than the CEO.

As for the manager’s name, that was included repeatedly and intentionally in the ‘Manager’s Decision’ paragraph of my letter to Asda HQ.

I’m sorry the ‘magic words’ were omitted from my letter to Asda’s CEO ColliesCarer, but this was sent to him on 22 May, before you reminded me about the issue of Protected Characteristics under the EA2010. However, my letter of appeal following the NTK, despatched on 12 May included this element, thanks to your prompt, besides mentioning Ellie Doonan, so hopefully all is not lost.

Sincerely, T.W.O.

Coupon-mad

All is never lost when you get a fake PCN from Smart Parking!

atilla

Coupon-mad wrote: »

All is never lost when you get a fake PCN from Smart Parking!

Indeed.
Seems to me that even a basic 'appeal' to them seems to result in a cancellation.

Truly_Wracked_Off

ASDA REJECTION – Now awaiting response from PPC: ASDA finally responded but only after I chased again. They’ve declined the invitation to cancel Smart Parking’s ticket! Disappointed, yes but surprised, no. For anyone interested in the ASDA exchange, please read on.

Because ASDA’s promised letter failed to turn up, I had to send another Email to the Directorate on 14 May, part of which is replicated below in italics:

To: Directorate
Subject: URGENT - F.A.O. Ms Emma McKee

Dear Ms McKee

On 02 May I sent an Email regarding the progress of my letter to your CEO, Mr Clarke; the letter arrived on 23 May 2014.

You responded to that Email on 07 May, saying you understood a reply was sent to print on 03 May for despatch on 04 May. You said it should be with me that week. We are now mid-way through the following week; it is 14 May, 22 days since my letter arrived with Asda and I've still heard nothing. ….

……….. In view of this protracted wait and the ensuing stress involved, I'd be most grateful if you would arrange for the contents of the said letter to be forwarded via Email, with immediate effect, to ensure there is no further delay. I remain none the wiser with regard to the outcome of my concern, sent for Mr Clarke's consideration over three weeks ago.

ASDA’s Response to my Email Above - 15 May (From Emma Mckee Executive Relations)

Good afternoon (My Christian Name!!!)

Thanks for taking the time to contact me.

I'm sorry you still haven't received the letter my colleague Kirsty sent you, I'm disappointed this hasn't reached you as yet. Here is a copy of the letter which was sent:

ASDA’s letter

Dear Ms xxx

Thank you for taking the time to write to Andy Clarke regarding the parking charge notice at our Abbey Park store. As part of Andy’s team, he’s asked me to investigate and respond to you directly on his behalf.

I'm sorry that you've received a parking charge notice whilst parking in a disabled bay. I can appreciate why you parked there due to the weather, as you were only in store for a few minutes.

Whilst I appreciate you are disputing the fact you were parked in a disabled bay due to the downpour and not having an umbrella, it is a legal requirement to display a blue badge whilst parking in these spaces.

Each store has its own parking policy, depending on its size and location, which is highlighted at various points around the car park. If you are unsure about parking at any of our stores, one of my colleagues at the Customer Service Desk will be happy to explain their policy in more detail. When you enter a car park, you are entering a contract with the car park owners and agreeing to their terms and conditions.

The parking charge has been issued directly by Smart Parking which can be discussed with them directly using the information on the ticket. Thanks again for contacting Andy. If there’s anything else I can help with, please do get in touch.

Yours sincerely Kirsty Rogers Asda Service Team

A minor point of irritation (in addition to the overfamiliar, cosy use of my Christian name in their Email!) is ASDA’s talk of dispute. There was never any dispute about where the car was parked; consideration was sought for the astronomical charge levied for a two minute stay in mitigating circumstances! However, questionable’ legalities’ appear to be the only thing that matter here.

THE LEGAL QUESTION: I know nothing of the law but can already hear Forum stalwarts protesting in unison. Presumably, it’s incorrect for ASDA to claim “it is a legal requirement to display a blue badge whilst parking in these spaces”. But their claimed legality is not enforceable on private land; just wishing it so is not enough. Please say that’s right!

Then what about ASDA’s claim that “When you enter a car park, you are entering a contract with the car park owners and agreeing to their terms and conditions.”? Surely one can only ‘agree’ to a contract if T&C’s are made evident. Wouldn’t customers have to know that contractual terms and conditions existed before any such claim could be legitimised? If so, then it’s the responsibility of the PPC to make stringent efforts to ensure their signage is adequate and fulfils this criterion. A handful of signs, poorly positioned at an absurd height in a car park that offers, in the main, unrestricted parking, is not adequate signage and there’s nothing at all on entering the car park to indicate that any charges apply anywhere. Perhaps try harder for drivers who are 4’ 11” maximum when the base of their notice is 7’ above the road. During a torrential downpour, who would be looking up to heaven! Without an umbrella, it was eyes down and head straight for the store. Below, in italics, is an extract from my letter to ASDA’s CEO.

Bold Signage: If Asda, in tandem with the parking company, wish to demonstrate genuine care for the customer, why not erect bold signage at eye level, visible for all to see. This would be much more likely to ensure appropriate parking. Eye-level signage flanking the store’s entrance, and also displayed on the inner doors, would be far more effective. And if it warned of a hefty parking charge, this would be a real service to the customer. After all, the sole purpose of car-park restrictions is surely good car-park management – but this episode was far from that! From my perspective the charge inflicted here, demonstrated more than anything, that this was rich pickings for a company that isn’t part of your organisation. The two words that spring most readily to mind are ‘cash cow’.

CAR PARK OWNERSHIP: In their letter of response, not only did ASDA ignore the customer’s age and medical condition, in a car park that was almost empty, they completely ignored the reference to their habitual dishonesty and lack of integrity with regard to who owns their car parks! Below, in italics, is an extract from my letter to ASDA’s CEO.

Land Ownership: During one of two conversations I had with staff at Asda, I was given misleading information (intentionally I believe) claiming that parking issues were outside Asda’s remit, because the car park was Council owned. The Council denied this, suggesting Asda was most likely to be the owner. I was advised by the Council to contact the Land Registry Office from whom I had to purchase documents. The title plan (WM57921) showed that Asda was indisputably the owner. How can Asda justify instigating an unnecessary wild goose chase involving an elderly, law-abiding customer? And if it’s correct that other Asda stores make identical false claims, how would Trading Standards view this? From the customer’s perspective, I can state unequivocally that it seriously compromises Asda’s integrity.

MANAGEMENT DISCRETION: ASDA’s response was not quite the waste of time I initially thought it to be. They did, after all, make it clear that the customer is unlikely to benefit from management discretion in their organisation, even at the highest level. ASDA customers, take note. Below, in italics, is an extract from my letter to ASDA’s CEO.

Management Discretion: Operating on its own land, Asda’s authority far outweighs that of the relevant parking company. With Asda being the proven land owner, it is surely implausible to argue, as Mr Marston did, that no one at Asda has the power to demonstrate management discretion and overrule this charge! It must be evident that such intransigence does little for your Company’s image. When employing the services of this Private Parking Company, I can’t imagine it was ever Asda’s intention that monitoring must be implemented with excessive zeal, irrespective of the circumstances.

Evidently, I was wrong. ASDA won’t ever get my custom again. When grocery shopping in Coventry, I’ll stick to the Ricoh Arena, plus Morrisons at the Alvis Retail Park where you can park as long as you wish without fear of the PPC spectre. And when I visit other car parks wherever they are, I’ll be so vigilant, hunting for and scrutinising signs before parking. If I can work up the enthusiasm and find the energy, I may just visit ASDA’s Facebook page.

I’ll update on the outcome of the NTK appeal, so until then - happy shopping! T.W.O.

Stroma

Of course there's no legal obligation to show a blue badge on private land, there is no legal obligation even to show it on public land, though you run the risk of a real PCN then. The fact that asda is in breach of the Equality Act means that they are in risk of a claim against them.

I would be minded to write back asking them for the address of service for a letter before claim and a county court claim , but I'm a belligerent person in relation to these matters.

Their lies regarding car park ownership just shows how badly their customer services are, the fact is they are treating their clientele with contempt and that they are stupid, these lies are easily countered so it makes you wonder why they use them.

You won't be paying anything to this ppc so don't worry to much with this

atilla

Nothing to pay to not so smart.
But...Now's your ammunition to go all guns blazing at Asda.

Just so you know, but probably suspected, Emma and Kirsty are, how shall we put this, down at the bottom in terms of pecking order. Think you'll find them in the contact centre.

Coupon-mad

THE LEGAL QUESTION:

I know nothing of the law but can already hear Forum stalwarts protesting in unison. Presumably, it’s incorrect for ASDA to claim “it is a legal requirement to display a blue badge whilst parking in these spaces”. But their claimed legality is not enforceable on private land; just wishing it so is not enough. Please say that’s right.

That's right. A disabled bay is for people with disabled 'protected characteristics' under the Equality Act 2010, who need to use a close by, or a wider bay. Even then it's not legally binding as such - and certainly there is no legal requirement for a Blue badge or that would discriminate against people with other genuine disability needs.

You are right about the signs having to be obvious as well, all of it is needed.

Never mind - Smart will cancel the PCN as they run scared of forum appeals and their NTO isn't complaint with the POFA 2012 anyway.