Query about disabled bay parking fine Asda

Truly_Wracked_Off

I’m new to this wretched process, just beginning, and busy working my way through the wealth of information for which I’m most grateful, but already stressed! Thank you Ukomass for your ‘Walk Through’ and thank you da_rule for the Flow Chart; many thanks for everyone’s contributions. I’m chasing things up on behalf of the elderly driver of a vehicle, (I’m the keeper) and the purpose of my enquiry is a couple of questions. These are at the end this brief overview below.

OVERVIEW: The beef is against Smart Parking who evidently monitor the Asda car park in question. There are no parking charges in this car park, or parking notices when you enter, or parking restrictions covering any of the bays, apart from the numerous disabled bays; and although there are notices in this large, disabled area, they are way above eye level.

On the day of the 3 minute ‘offence’, (proven by a timed receipt for lettuce and broccoli only!) a disabled bay was used by the driver to avoid getting drenched in a prolonged and torrential downpour. The vast majority of these bays (90+%) were empty. Rain was so heavy that shoppers and even the car park attendant(!!!) took shelter in the doorway. Finding a ticket on the windscreen after the briefest of shopping trips, the driver went directly to the store, as advised by the car parking attendant! The manager was not on site but assurances were given that he would contact the driver the following day. However, he ducked this responsibility and instead, a ‘shop-floor worker’ rang, saying Asda could do nothing because the car park was council owned.

As the keeper of the vehicle, I decided to follow this through so called the local Council. They assured me they were not the land owner and suggested I contact the Land Registry. I’m now waiting for a reply from them to my Email re land ownership. I appreciate this isn’t essential, but I’m curious.

In view of what I’ve read on the forum, I now intend to visit the store and inform the manager in person that I will forward a complaint directly to their CEO (Andy Clarke) whose contact details I found on the Web. Apart from misinformation re car park ownership (I understand Asda a have history of this), no consideration was given to the appalling weather conditions nor was any shown to the customer (a pensioner in their mid-70’s) with a very debilitating medical condition. In case of an accident, their condition demands they carry a card at all times warning that their medication must not be stopped under any circumstances. Because of a sense of pride and independence, no application has ever been made for a disabled permit – but after this fiasco, it’s now being given serious consideration. But from what I’ve read, I believe mitigating circumstances are worthless in appeal.

MY 2 QUESTIONS ARE:

1) Personal Details – How much information should be given to Asda’s CEO and, or, its store manager? I ask because I note the forum warns people to be very guarded re their details, so would it be appropriate to dish out contact details here? Likewise, you warn against revealing any receipts and times etc. So should this info be made available to Asda? The issued ticked was timed one minute before that of the shopping receipt, which was for the grand sum of £3.58, clearly indicating how minimal the expedition was!

2) Disabled Parking[/B] – From what I’ve seen to date, the alleged parking ‘offences’ on the forum are with regard to ‘overstaying’ rather than using a disabled parking bay without a permit. Am I right in assuming that the advice given on the forum is equally relevant to a disabled bay issue? It can’t be denied that the car was parked in a disabled bay. It was parked directly in front of the store to avoid the downpour, so the ‘Jobs Worth’ Car Park Attendant must have rushed from his shelter immediately the car arrived, before dashing back for cover from the rain, where he was then discovered by the unlucky pensioner a couple of minutes later, thanks to the diligent attention of a taxi driver!

Any forthcoming advice will be most gratefully received as I begin what appears to be a slow, tedious process. Sincerely T.W.O.

Stroma

The old this is not our car park but the councils, why does asda insist on this lie when it's so easily countered?

1) appeal firstly to the store manager, photocopy the receipt and say the driver was a customer and to get this cancelled immediately. Don't worry about giving details to asda.

2) disabled bays are for people who meets the definition of disabled under the Equality Act 2010, the act makes no reference to blue badges, so by limiting the use of bays in such a way is discrimination of disabled people without a badge.

Also don't forget to get an appeal in once the Notice to Keeper arrives, the wording is in the sticky thread by coupon mad.

da_rule

As it is private land they will either be alleging a breach of contract (now that breach can be by over staying, parking in the wrong type of bay, failing to pay and display etc) or trespass (along the same sort of lines). So the advice is equally valid yes.

Include as much information as you want, and I would send it to both the Store Manager and the CEO, however, if you aren't disabled (blue badge isn't important on private land, just some level of disability) and parked in a disabled bay they may not look too kindly on it. But either way, you/the driver was a customer and thats what you need to emphasise. Maybe try not to identify yourself as the driver.

Umkomaas

Apart from misinformation re car park ownership

AKA - a downright LIE.

Smart Parking are pretty benign - no court cases to date, so a standard appeal procedure will sort this for you.

Windscreen ticket - await Notice to Keeper (NtK) to arrive 29 - 56 days after parking event. Then initial appeal to Smart, followed by appeal to POPLA, all as per the NEWBIES sticky. Let us see draft POPLA appeal for fine tuning.

At the same time, continue pressing Asda and point out their LIES re council ownership. Tell them you are minded to sue under the Equality Act 2010, and will draw them in as they are the principal (of their agent Smart Parking) and are severally liable. Tell them you will see them in court.

That should concentrate their minds

Truly_Wracked_Off

... truly appreciative of your support and amazed at the speed with which you all replied. Guys like you deserve to be nominated on the Queen's honours list, for service to the hard-pressed, motoring public! Worthy of a Knighthood, no less.

I'm off now to take a couple of pics of Asda's car park and minimal signage, then straight back home to sort a letter for them. Upwards and onwards and I will, of course, update the forum. I'll make future communications less wordy! Sincerely, T.W.O.

bazster

You don't need to email the Land Registry, you can get land ownership through their website. You can use maps to zoom in on the land in question, and once you are happy you've identified it you hand over £3 for the ownership details.

trisontana

As an added check you can also ring up the local council's car park department and ask them if they do actually own that car-park . I did that both in Grantham and Retford, and in both cases the councils confirmed they they had nothing to do with those particular car parks.

HO87

Umkomaas wrote: »

Smart Parking are pretty benign - no court cases to date, so a standard appeal procedure will sort this for you.

Correct. I have been waiting patiently for them to stick their snouts over the parapet as far as court action is concerned but have been diasppointed so far. Frankly, with the information their antipodean parent company has disclosed to shareholders over the last few years - like, wanting to ensure that their PCN's match "market rates" (which utterly destroys the GPEOL argument as far as they are concerned) they'd be up something of a gum tree.

trisontana

Andyt1981 wrote: »

Does no-one else think that it's wrong to park in a disabled bay if you're not disabled? Even if it's raining.

It probably is, and we don't condone it. BUT, look at the actual circumstances - "The vast majority of these bays (90+%) were empty." and they parked for less than five minutes. Does that deserve a fake fine of £60 or whatever it was?

ColliesCarer

I'm sure no one here is condoning using disabled bays inappropriately.

On private land disabled parking bays are provided in order that the service provider complies with their obligations under the Equality Act.

A Blue Badge is not relevant on private land but the Equality Act 2010 is under which it is illegal for a service provider to discriminate against persons with protected characteristics. Attempting to insist that blue badges must be displayed discriminates against those and it's actually illegal to discriminate against disabled people who don't have a badge.

The OP has already stated that the driver suffers from debilitating long term medical conditions - this is enough to qualify them as a person with protected characteristics.

Stroma

Andyt1981 wrote: »

Does no-one else think that it's wrong to park in a disabled bay if you're not disabled? Even if it's raining.

What makes you think this person was not disabled? The fact is debilitating conditions that are long term are covered under the Equality Act 2010! And you don't need a blue badge to be disabled, or is it defined under the Act.

Don't you think its wrong for service providers to discriminate against disabled people? Because under the Equality Act it's actually illegal.

given to the appalling weather conditions nor was any shown to the customer (a pensioner in their mid-70’s) with a very debilitating medical condition.