Marks & Spencer cafe: breast-feeding mother asked to leave & feed baby in toilets:OK?

Indie_Kid

Doc_N wrote: »

Precisely! You'd normally have to have eyes like a hawk to spot a breastfeeding baby - which is what makes this whole thing so ludicrous.

It looks as though the baby is either sleeping or having a cuddle.

I do find the suggestion of the mother breastfeeding in the toilet disgusting.

antrobus

Doc_N wrote: »

....[FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]The Equality Act 2010 has specifically clarified that it is unlawful for a business to discriminate against a woman because she is breastfeeding a child.

A business may ask a breastfeeding woman to leave their premises if the reason for this request is not due to her breastfeeding. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]....[/FONT][/FONT]

That's what I said in post #30.

Unless you know exactly why the staff in the M&S cafe asked the "poor young mother" to leave, you are in no position to decide whether or not their actions were illegal.

shell1999

I remember a few years ago at my daughters schools sports day one of the mothers was breast feeding. She unbuttoned her shirt fully and her front fastening bra then just when for it. Her boobs were both totally on display and the funny thing was there were mostly dads there that year, we were all sitting stalls too so everyone had a good view.

This was not discreet it was more like look at me and the situation did make myself and my husband laugh, I think it was the look on the dad's faces.

Doc_N

antrobus wrote: »

That's what I said in post #30.

Unless you know exactly why the staff in the M&S cafe asked the "poor young mother" to leave, you are in no position to decide whether or not their actions were illegal.

As I said in the original post:

"Nothing outrageous, just a perfectly nice, normal woman wanting to feed her baby discreetly in the shop that she bought her clothes from - and the baby's."

The sole reason for asking this young woman to leave was that she was breast feeding her baby. My wife discussed it fully with her, and there was no other reason. My wife, who fully understands this sort of situation from personal experience, suggested that she should complain to the store manager, but the mother did not want the confrontation that that would bring. She just wanted to be able to sit with a drink in the cafe and feed her baby at the same time and was upset that she'd been asked to leave for no other reason than that she was feeding her baby.

Someone above could not understand why anyone would put up with this without complaining (my wife and daughter certainly wouldn't have) but not all young mothers have the stomach for that sort of confrontation, and this one didn't. I think she should have complained, but it was her right not to, and entirely her decision.

hollydays

I think I have one foot in both camps really. Many women breast feed but still have the influence from their family that it isn't really " nice" , or it's disgusting even, I know I did .
What's not nice is being made to feel you are doing something wrong . Equally women who don't breast feed shouldn't be made to feel guilty either.

i do think a bit of discretion is respectful.

Is it any wonder some women take the stance they'll do it when the baby needs feeding and to hell with other people.

Azari

Doc_N wrote: »

As I said in the original post:

"Nothing outrageous, just a perfectly nice, normal woman wanting to feed her baby discreetly in the shop that she bought her clothes from - and the baby's."

The sole reason for asking this young woman to leave was that she was breast feeding her baby. My wife discussed it fully with her, and there was no other reason. My wife, who fully understands this sort of situation from personal experience, suggested that she should complain to the store manager, but the mother did not want the confrontation that that would bring. She just wanted to be able to sit with a drink in the cafe and feed her baby at the same time and was upset that she'd been asked to leave for no other reason than that she was feeding her baby.

Someone above could not understand why anyone would put up with this without complaining (my wife and daughter certainly wouldn't have) but not all young mothers have the stomach for that sort of confrontation, and this one didn't. I think she should have complained, but it was her right not to, and entirely her decision.

And you still haven't told us in which branch this alleged incident took place.

I'm just finding this more an more unbelievable.

You initially came up with a story that matched the information on a facebook post.

When M&S explained in a reasonably satisfactory manner what happened in that incident you added details to make it appear that it was a separate incident.

Each time someone brings up some possible explanation for what happened you come up with yet more information that your 'wife' gleaned in what is now beginning to sound like an interrogation of the victim.

Saying that this particular woman did not want a confrontation does not explain why, if M&S have such poor staff training that this sort of event can happen twice in as many days, at least some of the many, many, others it must be happening too are not kicking up an almighty stink.

hollydays

At the very least the op should email their local nct to let them know this has happened.

https://www.nct.org.uk

Or

http://www.breastfeedingwelcomescheme.org.uk/contact/

Doc_N

Azari wrote: »

And you still haven't told us in which branch this alleged incident took place.

I'm just finding this more an more unbelievable.

You initially came up with a story that matched the information on a facebook post.

When M&S explained in a reasonably satisfactory manner what happened in that incident you added details to make it appear that it was a separate incident.

Each time someone brings up some possible explanation for what happened you come up with yet more information that your 'wife' gleaned in what is now beginning to sound like an interrogation of the victim.

Saying that this particular woman did not want a confrontation does not explain why, if M&S have such poor staff training that this sort of event can happen twice in as many days, at least some of the many, many, others it must be happening too are not kicking up an almighty stink.

Are you still trying to defend M&S on this? Your refusal to accept a perfectly straightforward statement of fact suggests to me that you may have an ulterior motive in defending M&S against the indefensible. Do you have shares in M&S, perhaps?


Let me spell it out for you:


1 What possible motive would I have for making all this up?


2 I did not 'come up with a story that matched the information on a Facebook post'. Look at the timings of the posts. The Facebook post came rather later than mine and appears to refer to it. I say 'appears', because I can't find the post on Facebook - only in the Google cache.


3 The Facebook post, from somebody called Barbara, was as follows:


I have just read about a young mum being asked to leave a M&S cafe because she was breast feeding her baby and asked to go to the toilets instead.
Maybe you should retrain your staff and advise them about this small, but useful, extract from the NHS website:
"You shouldn’t ever be made to feel uncomfortable about breastfeeding in public. In fact, the Equality Act 2010 has made it illegal for anyone to ask a breastfeeding woman to leave a public place such as a cafe, shop or public transport."


4 The M&S response to that was:


Hi Barbara. I understand your concern and would like to assure you we'd never intentionally make our customers feel this way. This incident was a one off and the members of our team involved in this complaint believed they were doing the right thing to accommodate the customer quickly as there was no available seating to offer in either cafes at the time. Our staff are genuinely mortified that they have caused such embarrassment and upset, as mothers themselves they understand the importance and difficulties faced and are very regretful that the customer didn't feel they were sensitive enough to her needs. We also offered to send an email or letter to apologise further. Please let me know if you need any more help. Thanks, Donna.


5 What's really interesting about that is that the M&S response must relate to another incident altogether. I say that because it refers to two cafes, and the store I was in has only one. I have already said that I am not naming the store to avoid any risk of identifying and causing any further embarrassment to a young mother who was already very upset at what had happened to her. Publishing the name of the store here will achieve nothing, and I have no intention of doing it just to satisfy you - not that it would, of course.




If you want to continue to delude yourself (for whatever reason) into thinking this is all fiction, that's fine by me. I have reported the facts - nothing more, nothing less. I gain nothing by all this, but it really does make me very sad that this sort of treatment is still being meted out to mothers when it should have disappeared long ago. I say that as a husband (and father) who strongly feels that breast feeding (where possible) is the best and most natural way to feed a child - and that barriers like this are incredibly unhelpful to mothers trying to do their best for their children.

georgiesmum

Doesn't happen in Widnes M&S. You quite offen see women breast feeding in the cafe. Usually they tuck themselves into a quiet peaceful corner of the cafe.
The fellas are always embarrased though,lol.
Nothing wrong in doing it discreatly. Babies have to be fed after all.

aileth

Pff you guys, breasts are designed for page 3 viewing, not for breastfeeding babies duh