Want to buy land, Council are making it impossible!!

AdrianC

Rtype wrote: »

It's looking like I will never be able to get land at this rate and my business will either fold or make it so unviable (earnings wise) that I have to look at another job.

If the cost of complying with the law renders your business economically unviable, then your business IS economically unviable. Sorry, but...

How is it that I can currently walk my dogs on any public land that I want and not pay business rates (and the council have to pay for the upkeep) and yet, if I buy my own land which 'I' pay to upkeep, I have to pay £5-20K in taxes?!?! I still can't get my head around that!!

There's a clue in the name "public land". If you own and use land for business use, then you have to pay business rates. You only need to do that because you cannot or will not conform to the changing restrictions on using the public land.

Whether you like it or agree with it or not, there are very good reasons why many councils are introducing caps on the number of dogs which one person is deemed to be in control of. If you want to exercise more dogs, then you either need to do them in smaller groups or with more people. If it's worth you paying £60,000 or more to buy the land, plus maintain it and pay business rates, then surely it'd make more financial sense for you to hire somebody to work with you? If you need to charge more to make it profitable to do so, then you need to charge more. All your competitors will be in the same position, so it doesn't put you at a competitive disadvantage. The only question is whether the market will bear the higher rates, or whether your customers will find other solutions.

browneyedbazzi

I'd be tempted to do the same as sleepymans....although there is a small risk that a failed planning application could have a negative impact on the value of the land.

WestonDave

The other thing to try is see if you can get an "option" on the land - with this you pay the landowner a sum which gives you the option to buy the land for a pre-agreed price within say 2 months if you can get change of use on it. If you don't buy it then you lose the option fee but the landowner may be willing to wait in exchange for that change of the option fee on top of its bare value. You'd need legal advice about setting it up but its not that complicated.

Rtype

fashionlover10 wrote: »

Thank you. I did try googling but all I found was something on an Essex country park website saying that they limit it to 4 dogs per person.
So the law isn't changing but probably OP's local park is imposing a limit under current guidelines.

OP can you not get in a volunteer to help you walk the dogs? From what I can work out from the linked publication the limit is X amount of dogs per person so 2 people could walk X number of dogs each together.

This is not the law that I am talking about, the current national law is being revised and many sources have said that this will be changed to 4 per person. At the moment, everything is done at a local level, I currently have a licence to walk 8 dogs at a time (as long as I can prove to the council through various tests that I can control them all) so it will not effect me 'as' much as others (unless my licence changes too) but believe me, this new law 'will' be coming at some point.

In terms of making my business being viable, it will, even with the extortionate cost of land. When this new law kicks in, everybody else will be forced to put their prices up so the fortunate few that have land can keep their prices at the current levels.

In terms of hiring somebody else, I would never go down that route (unlike many others). The owners have put their trust in 'me' because of my years of training and experience to look after their pets so I don't agree with what a lot of others do and just pay somebody minimum wage to walk around a park for 20 mins with no previous experience and not even tell the owners that's what they do.
I put my dogs before profit which is why I think my business is doing so well and buying land is going to be my only option in the future.

It looks like I have a lot of homework to do, I am extremely grateful for all of the advice that has been given so far.

Thanks guys

fashionlover10

Rtype wrote: »

This is not the law that I am talking about, the current national law is being revised and many sources have said that this will be changed to 4 per person. At the moment, everything is done at a local level, I currently have a licence to walk 8 dogs at a time (as long as I can prove to the council through various tests that I can control them all) so it will not effect me 'as' much as others (unless my licence changes too) but believe me, this new law 'will' be coming at some point.

In terms of making my business being viable, it will, even with the extortionate cost of land. When this new law kicks in, everybody else will be forced to put their prices up so the fortunate few that have land can keep their prices at the current levels.

In terms of hiring somebody else, I would never go down that route (unlike many others). The owners have put their trust in 'me' because of my years of training and experience to look after their pets so I don't agree with what a lot of others do and just pay somebody minimum wage to walk around a park for 20 mins with no previous experience and not even tell the owners that's what they do.
I put my dogs before profit which is why I think my business is doing so well and buying land is going to be my only option in the future.

It looks like I have a lot of homework to do, I am extremely grateful for all of the advice that has been given so far.

Thanks guys

I'm not saying pay someone to walk them for you. I'm saying get a volunteer in to walk them WITH you.

Rtype

fashionlover10 wrote: »

I'm not saying pay someone to walk them for you. I'm saying get a volunteer in to walk them WITH you.

If a park has a rule of 4 dogs per person, you are not allowed or supposed to walk in groups of more than 4 dogs, regardless of the amount of people and some dog wardens/council officials/police can be very picky.
If I had 15 dogs and asked my other half to help me, he would have to walk separately from me.

Plus i would never expect somebody to do this for free when i'm being paid for it.

Soot2006

I wouldn't pay my dog walker to take me dog round the same 3 acres every day ... I expect, if all prices go up then this is the way it will be and we'll all get used to it again. I live near the south downs and all the dog walkers here move around with massive packs of dogs, in the middle of nowhere - how could this be enforced? They park up their vans, all the dogs get out, off into the wilderness and come back a few hours later ... covering significantly more than 3 acres. 3 acres is just over 1 square km ... i.e. roughly 100 x 120m ...

Rtype

Soot2006 wrote: »

I wouldn't pay my dog walker to take me dog round the same 3 acres every day ... I expect, if all prices go up then this is the way it will be and we'll all get used to it again. I live near the south downs and all the dog walkers here move around with massive packs of dogs, in the middle of nowhere - how could this be enforced? They park up their vans, all the dogs get out, off into the wilderness and come back a few hours later ... covering significantly more than 3 acres. 3 acres is just over 1 square km ... i.e. roughly 100 x 120m ...

My business is in Central London so it would be policed quite heavily and there are only so many places you can realistically walk (I'm talking decent places for the dogs).
My land would be an activity base with lots of emphasis on training (various types) going on with access to over 300 acres of woodland.
There is no way I would just leave my dogs on a small plot of land all day every day, that goes against everything I am trying to do and believe in (believe me when I say that there are plenty of 'centres' that do!

[Deleted User]

If you are dealing with dogs in central London.., why do you have to take the dogs to Surrey? I live in Kent, much less expensive, lots of dog walking routes (ncluding forests/wooded areas) and hopefully the land is not only cheaper but slightly more easily available. There must be other areas too. You might find the ffour dog restriction doesn't apply in other local areas too.

Another problem may be a slight confusion in how you are describing your concepts. You start off with dog walking.., (plenty of people make money walking 4 dogs on a lead at a time, any more at a time and I don't see how you can keep them disciplined and so on.., however good a walker/trainer you are). If you can keep the number of dogs you have in your hands (on a lead I hope.., or you have very very good insurance cover as I rarely go for a walk with my dogs without problems from one dog or another) to under four.., it will save you quite a few thousand pounds lol? If you are expanding and not planning to employ anyone how can you possibly look after them all?

Then you talk about training, then because of another reply it seems its possible you might want to house some dogs. Is this dog walking or dog training .., what?

Without clarifying all this in your head and your statements, you won't get clear advice. From us or planning departments.

Soot2006

Rtype wrote: »

My business is in Central London so it would be policed quite heavily and there are only so many places you can realistically walk (I'm talking decent places for the dogs).
My land would be an activity base with lots of emphasis on training (various types) going on with access to over 300 acres of woodland.
There is no way I would just leave my dogs on a small plot of land all day every day, that goes against everything I am trying to do and believe in (believe me when I say that there are plenty of 'centres' that do!

Fair enough, I didn't realise it was Central London.

Still, even in Central London, policing 300 acres of woodland can't be that easy. I don't know Central London or the large woodlands within in.